God and Allah Are Not the Same, Judge Told

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 3/02/04 | Patrick Goodenough

[kattracks]

Pacific Rim Bureau (CNSNews.com) - God and Allah are not the same, an Australian pastor has told a tribunal where he faces complaints of vilifying Islam.

Pastor Daniel Scot, a scholar in Islam who fled his native Pakistan 17 years ago amid threats of retribution for "blasphemy," said that his studying of the Bible and the Quran led him to the conclusion that the God of the Bible and Allah of the Quran were different in practice, behavior and other attributes.

Scot and another pastor, Danny Nalliah, have been appearing before an administrative tribunal in the state of Victoria, after Muslims brought a complaint against them under controversial new hate laws.

Nalliah's organization, Catch the Fire Ministries, organized a seminar on Islam for Christians in March 2002, and Scot was the guest speaker. Three Muslim converts who attended the meeting at the request of the Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) said the seminar had incited fear of, and hatred for, Muslims.

Catch the Fire denied the charge, saying the seminar had merely informed Christians about Islam and its teachings, as set out in the Quran, Hadiths (sayings of Mohammed) and other religious texts.

Mediation attempts failed, and the case eventually landed before the tribunal, which operates like a court, with a presiding judge and lawyers representing the complainants and respondents.

If the judge upholds the complaint, he may order Scot and Nalliah to apologize, pay compensation or take other steps. The specific complaint faced by the two does not carry criminal penalties.

Re-examined by his legal representative, David Perkins, Scot said he had read the Bible more than 50 times and the Quran even more than that.

He said the Bible made it clear that Jesus Christ came to earth because of God's love, to save all humanity. God did not want anyone to perish, whereas Allah said he had created many jinn (spirits), and mankind for hell.

Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.

Mohammed said in a Hadith that a man would enjoy the sexual prowess of 100 men, he added.

("The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.' " - Mishkat Al-Masabih)

Scot said the Quran also refers, in sura 5:60, to Allah turning "people of the Book" (Jews and Christians) into monkeys and pigs.

By contrast, the Bible teaches that God made mankind in his own image, and only because of sin is that image marred.

The question of Allah and God was initially brought up in an earlier hearing, by a legal representative for the ICV, Brind Woinarski.

Woinarski asked Scot for a yes or no answer to the question of whether he believed Allah in Islam is the same as the God of the Bible.

Scot instead asked for permission to answer in more detail, then asked for a copy of the Quran and read two portions (sura 5:72 and sura 19:88-91) which say in essence that Allah has no son.

Then he read from the Bible (1 John 2:23), which says: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Scot told the tribunal that it was considered the greatest sin in Islam to say that Allah has a son.

By reading those verses from the Quran and the Bible, it was evident Allah and God were not the same, he said.

At a different point in the questioning, Scot said that Jesus forgave his enemies, whereas Mohammed did not.

He said one needed to look at how Mohammed - the perfect example for Muslims - acted, and how Jesus lived and taught his followers to live.

The case continues.

See earlier story:
Vilifying Islam Case Drags on in Australia (Feb. 26, 2004)

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

[Don Joe]

I don't think this guy's case is proven. The Christian God is the God of the Old Testament. Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and neither do Muslims. So the God of Islam could be the same God as the God of Judaism.

There is only one God of Abraham, and I believe Christians, Muslims and Jews pray to him. They disagree on who God's representative on earth is.

Let's for sake of argument say you're right. Does that mean that the government should therefore weigh in, punishing those who disagree with Muslim dogma?

[george wythe]

You're right about the young boys.

With respect to a man being married to many wives, or in reference to the fact that married people stay married in heaven, it seems that the Mormons do not agree with orthodox Christianity.

I was reading today the official Mormon website, so I was reminded of the Mormon theology when I read this article:

Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.

The official Mormon website has this introduction to one the Mormon sacred books:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

Source

[WOSG]

Democratic Presidential primaries: proof that ignorance is not just for the little people.

That ranks right up there with the secularists ignorant claim that any moral view found in the bible cannot be legislated since that would violate 'separation of church and state'... oh really, so we cant outlaw theft based on "thou shalt not steal"?

[WOSG]

Besides, many scholars have assured us that it's only due to an improper translation that the "82 virgins" story got started. The actual text refers to raisins, not virgins, so don't get your panties in a wad over it.

any scholars are lying. Look up the term "Houris". The actual Quranic text is "In them will be fair (Maidens / Houris), good, beautiful;- ... Maidens restrained (as to their glances), in (goodly) pavilions;- ... Whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;- Sura 55:70,72,74

Sorry ... you've been fed a pile of BS by 'scholars' who are trying to cover up the truth of Islam. Par for the course. There are scholars who, in defiance of actual biblical text and 4000 years of understanding on the matter, think that the men in sodom werent after sex with the visitors of Lot, but wree just 'inhospitable'; part of the gay-enabling agenda and cultural marxism infecting the honesty of scholarship.

According to Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]’."

HOURIS the real meaning

see also waht Islamic debaters tell eachother: Abd al-Rahman Lomax back in July 1996 (cited in full at the end of this reply), the sound narrations in the two Sahihs (al-Bukhari and Muslim) specify that: - "there is not in all Paradise a single unmarried man"; - "Each man among them shall have two wives"; - "the marrow of each of the two wives' shanks will be seen glimmering under the flesh" i.e. these beautiful wives will be glistening and shining; - "their wives will be the Hur al-`Ayn"; It goes on: The Qur'an further describes those wives as: kawa`iba atraban (in Surat al-Naba') = "Kawa`ib for companions"; but what are the Kawa`ib? According to al-Razi in his Tafsir (8:311): "The kawa`ib are the buxom girls (nawahid) whose breasts have become full (taka``abat) and round (tafallakat)." Then he moves on to the next verse. I would like to see who still desexualizes the meaning of the Huris after this. Al-Razi in Tafsir Surat al-Rahman (8:31) also said that the order in which the rewards of the faithful in Paradise are listed is beautifully suggestive as it becomes more and more intimate, moving from the initial mention of "the two gardens" (jannatan) to "two springs" (`aynan) inside, to "paired fruits" (fakiha), to "beds" (furushin), and finally to what is inside those beds, namely, the "chaste-eyed maidens" (qasirat al-tarf) [later further named "wide-eyed maidens restricting themselves to their dwellings" (hurun maqsuratun fi al-khiyam)].

[WOSG]

"Needless to say, you are unable to even prove that there is a God, much less whether the one worshipped by a billion Muslims is different from the one worshipped by a billion Christians."

A simple comparison of text shows that the conception of God, the definition of what is good and evil, and what if anything is expected after death are different between Islam and Christianity.

If they worship the 'same God', you might as well lump *all* religions and atheists too. We all believe in some concept of a universe that exists and has some order to it.

Sometimes 'proof' is the wrong thing to ask for: I cant "prove" you are not an AI program out of MIT, but I have faith in your humanity. :-)

[spacewarp]

Well, I guess I'm a little confused. The Mohammad said that there's supposed to be 80,000 servants and 72 virgins for every Muslim that is a "person of paradise". But, he considered Christians and Jews and other non-believers monkeys and pigs. So, who are the 80,000? Demons? And the 72 virgins? So, someone's only going to get 72 days of paradise?

Paul

[Al Simmons]

"Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.

Is this about Muslims or Mormons?"

There is a point to your cuteness. Both cults were founded by men (Smith, Muhammed) whose main impetus in founding their 'religions' was the desire to break social mores of the day in order to be able to 'enjoy' more than one woman.

The parallel ends there, of course. Despite this flaw, Smith and his follwers have turned out to be model citizens in most ways, while Mohammed was a pedophillic psychopath, whose most fervent followers continue this tradition to the present date.

[Al Simmons]

"There is only one God of Abraham, and I believe Christians, Muslims and Jews pray to him. They disagree on who God's representative on earth is."

Your ignorance is showing. The "god" Allah is a bloodthirsty deity offering many carnal pleasures to its followers who feed his bloodlust.

Doesn't sound much like Jehovah/Jesus to me.

Historical point: Are you aware that "Allah" was the moon god of the Meccans (take a look at the Islamic flag, for example), whose idol at the shrine of the Kabbah was the ONLY ONE NOT DESTROYED by Mohammed when he took over Mecca. See, adopting the Meccan's god was his strategy in getting the Meccans swayed to his new psychopathic 'revelations'.

Ergo, I know you are tryng to be "PC" and "tolerant", but whether you look at it religiously or secularly, you CAN NOT make a decent argument that Mohammedans worship the same God as Jews or Christians do (unless you are an Andy-Rooney-type atheist who is trying to discredit/mock believing Jews and Christians).

You're welcome.

[Cultural Jihad]

your an atheist

Oh, that's your problem, English is your second language.

While you are unable to prove there is a God, I am.

[MissAmericanPie]

I would be very interested and happy to hear you do that. Please continue.

[george wythe]

There is a point to your cuteness. Both cults were founded by men (Smith, Muhammed) whose main impetus in founding their 'religions' was the desire to break social mores of the day in order to be able to 'enjoy' more than one woman.

I tend to stay away from the word "cult," because neither the Mormon nor the Muslim freepers appreciate it, but thank you for sharing your opinion.