Posted on 03/02/2004 2:53:16 AM PST by kattracks
Pacific Rim Bureau (CNSNews.com) - God and Allah are not the same, an Australian pastor has told a tribunal where he faces complaints of vilifying Islam.
Pastor Daniel Scot, a scholar in Islam who fled his native Pakistan 17 years ago amid threats of retribution for "blasphemy," said that his studying of the Bible and the Quran led him to the conclusion that the God of the Bible and Allah of the Quran were different in practice, behavior and other attributes.
Scot and another pastor, Danny Nalliah, have been appearing before an administrative tribunal in the state of Victoria, after Muslims brought a complaint against them under controversial new hate laws.
Nalliah's organization, Catch the Fire Ministries, organized a seminar on Islam for Christians in March 2002, and Scot was the guest speaker. Three Muslim converts who attended the meeting at the request of the Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) said the seminar had incited fear of, and hatred for, Muslims.
Catch the Fire denied the charge, saying the seminar had merely informed Christians about Islam and its teachings, as set out in the Quran, Hadiths (sayings of Mohammed) and other religious texts.
Mediation attempts failed, and the case eventually landed before the tribunal, which operates like a court, with a presiding judge and lawyers representing the complainants and respondents.
If the judge upholds the complaint, he may order Scot and Nalliah to apologize, pay compensation or take other steps. The specific complaint faced by the two does not carry criminal penalties.
Re-examined by his legal representative, David Perkins, Scot said he had read the Bible more than 50 times and the Quran even more than that.
He said the Bible made it clear that Jesus Christ came to earth because of God's love, to save all humanity. God did not want anyone to perish, whereas Allah said he had created many jinn (spirits), and mankind for hell.
Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.
Mohammed said in a Hadith that a man would enjoy the sexual prowess of 100 men, he added.
("The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.' " - Mishkat Al-Masabih)
Scot said the Quran also refers, in sura 5:60, to Allah turning "people of the Book" (Jews and Christians) into monkeys and pigs.
By contrast, the Bible teaches that God made mankind in his own image, and only because of sin is that image marred.
The question of Allah and God was initially brought up in an earlier hearing, by a legal representative for the ICV, Brind Woinarski.
Woinarski asked Scot for a yes or no answer to the question of whether he believed Allah in Islam is the same as the God of the Bible.
Scot instead asked for permission to answer in more detail, then asked for a copy of the Quran and read two portions (sura 5:72 and sura 19:88-91) which say in essence that Allah has no son.
Then he read from the Bible (1 John 2:23), which says: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."
Scot told the tribunal that it was considered the greatest sin in Islam to say that Allah has a son.
By reading those verses from the Quran and the Bible, it was evident Allah and God were not the same, he said.
At a different point in the questioning, Scot said that Jesus forgave his enemies, whereas Mohammed did not.
He said one needed to look at how Mohammed - the perfect example for Muslims - acted, and how Jesus lived and taught his followers to live.
The case continues.
See earlier story:
Vilifying Islam Case Drags on in Australia (Feb. 26, 2004)
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In a sense, yes, in that He is unbound by any limits imposed by language. However, I think most religions hold that their God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, infinite and eternal. By definition there can be only one such Being. To argue that the Gods of different religions are different, you must put some limitations on your or the other guy's God. Since the other guy's religion is not teaching that his God is less than eternal, infinite, etc., the only way to win this argument is to define your God as something smaller. That seems like a form of blasphemy to me.
It's fine to say many followers of a religion are corrupt and immoral and that what is commonly taught is evil. I don't think, though, that Christians or Muslims can say my God is better than your God. It doesn't make sense.
Well isn't that special.
It's comforting to know that the same process by which countries become Islamic Republics continues unchanged throughout the ages. They simply keep yielding, until they've handed over the complete reins.
Tradition!
Welcome to the Islamic Republic of Australia.
Someone should photoshop up some nice Visitor's Bureau posters, eh?
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Chalmecacihuilt, Chalmecatl, Chamer, Chantico, Chaob, Chasca, Chibiabos, Chibirias, Chiccan, Chicomecoatl, Chicomexochtli, Chiconahui, Chiconahuiehecatl, Chie, Chirakan, Cihuacoatl, Cinteotl, Cipactli, Cit-Bolon-Tum, Cit Chac Coh, Citlalatonac, Citlalicue, Ciucoatl, Ciuteoteo, Cizin, Coatlicue, Cochimetl, Cocijo, Cocomama, Colel Cab, Colop U Uichkin, Copil, Coyolxauhqui, Coyopa, Coyote or Old Man, Cum Hau, Dagwanoenyent, Deohako, Djigonsasee, Dzalarhons, Ee-loolth, Ehecatl, Eithinoha, Ek Ahau, Ekchuah, Esceheman, Eschetewuarha, Estsanatlehi, Evaki, Ewauna, Gaoh, Gawaunduk, Geezhigo-Quae, Gendenwitha, Genetaska, Ghanan, Gitche Manitou, Glispa, Gluskap, Godasiyo, Great Seahouse, Guabancex, Gucumatz, Gukumatz, Gunnodoyak, Gyhldeptis, Hacauitz, Hacha'kyum, Hamedicu, Hanghepi Wi, Hastseoltoi, Heng, Hino, Hisakitaimisi, Hotoru, Huehuecoyotl, Huehueteotl, Huitaca, Huitzilopochtli, Huixtocihuatl, Hummingbird, Hun Hunahpu, Hunab Ku, Hunahpu, Hunahpu Utiu, Hunahpu-Gutch, Hunhau, Hun Pic Tok, Hurakan, Iatiku and Nautsiti, Idlirvirisong, Ilamatecuhtli, Illapa, Ilyap'a, Inti, Ioskeha, Ipalnemohuani, Isakakate, Itzamná, Itzananohk`u, Itzlacoliuhque, Itzli, Itzpapalotl, Ix Chebel Yax, Ixbalanque, Ixchel, Ixchup, Ixmucane, Ixpiyacoc, Ixtab, Ixtlilton, Ixtubtin, Ixzaluoh, Iztaccihuatl, Iztacmixcohuatl, Jaguar Night, Jaguar Quitze, Katsinas, Kan, Kan-u-Uayeyab, Kan-xib-yui, Kanati, Ketchimanetowa, Ketq Skwaye, K'in, Kianto, Kilya, Kinich Ahau, Kinich Kakmo, Kisin, Kun, Loha, Loo-wit, Macaw Woman, Macuilxochitl, Maho Peneta, Mahucutah, Malinalxochi, Malsum, Mam, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Mani'to, Manu, Masaya, Master of Winds, Mayahuel, Menahka, Metztli, Mexitl, Mictecacihuatl, Mictlan, Mictlantecuhtli, Mitnal, Mixcoatl, Mulac, Nacon, Nagual, Nahual, Nakawé, Nanabojo, Nanabush, Nanahuatzin, Nanautzin, Nanih Waiya, Nanook, Naum, Negafok, Nesaru, Nishanu, Nohochacyum, Ockabewis, Oklatabashih, Omacatl, Omecihuatl, Ometecuhtli, Onatha, Opochtli, Oshadagea, Pachacamac, Pachamama, Pah, Paiowa, Pana, Patecatl, Pautiwa, Paynal, Pinga, Qaholom, Qakma, Quetzalcoatl, Quootis-hooi, Ragno, Rukko, Sedna, Selu, Shakuru, Shilup Chito Osh, Shrimp House, Sio Humis, Supai, Talocan, Tarhuhyiawahku, Tawa, Tawiscara, Tecciztecatl, Teoyaomqui, Tepeu, Tepeyollotl, Teteoinnan, Tezcatlipoca, Tieholtsodi, Tirawa atius, Tlacolotl, Tlahuixcalpantecuhtli, Tlaloc, Tlaltecuhtli, Tlauixcalpantecuhtli, Tlazolteotl, Tohil, Tonantzin, Tonatiuh, To'nenile, True Jaguar, Tsentsa, Tsichtinako, Tunkan Ingan, Tzakol, Tzitzimime, Uchtsiti, Ueuecoyotl, Uitzilopochtli, Ukat, Unk, Urcaguary, Viracocha/Huiracocha, Voltan, Wah-Kah-Nee, Wakan-Tanka, White Buffalo Woman, Windigo, Winonah, Wisagatcak, Xaman Ek, Xibalba, Xilonen, Xipe Totec, Xiuhcoatl, Xiuhtecuhtli, Xiuhtecutli, Xmucane, Xochipili, Xochiquetzal, Xocotl, Xolotl, Xpiyacoc, Xpuch and Xtah, Yacatecuhtli, Yaluk, Yebaad, Yeba Ka, Yeitso, Yemanja, Yemaya, Yiacatecuhtli, Yolkai Estsan, Yum Kaax, Zaramama, Zipaltonal, Zotz,....?
It's the sheep mentality. They hurt you, so be nice to them. You don't want to piss 'em off even more, do you?
There's an old "ethnic joke" I like to tell. I heard it on NPR of all places, IIRC.
A Jewish couple is sitting on the ground in a concentration camp, facing a trench filled with bodies. Behind them stands a nazi guard with a machinegun.
They hear the nazi cock his machinegun.
The husband mutters, "Lousy stinking nazi sonofabitch..."
His wife then turns to him and says, "Shush! You'll make him mad!"
Sad, isn't it, how that mentality has pretty much taken over Western culture. The Australians aren't, "eager to prosecute a Christian minister," they're simply trying not to upset the Muslims. They just don't know that there's a not-too-pretty endgame to the process of "not upsetting the Muslems" via kowtowing to them.
The agenda should be clear for all to see - even judges!
The problem isn't that they don't see it. The problem is that Islam has managed to get itself the "street rep" as the toughest kid on the block -- the one that no one dare offend.
Just think back to those movies where the mealy mouthed little weasels, in cloyingly saccharine, deferential demeanor, avert their gaze and utter such terms of "respect" like, "yes, don Corleone..."
The mobsters were "men of respect". The more feared, the more respected.
It's nothing new. The Bard even covered it. "For Brutus is an honorable man; So are they all, all honorable men."
The West is bowing, scraping, and condescending itself into a return to the Dark Ages.
I doubt it'll be any prettier this time around.
Because, in the common parlance, if it isn't accepted as such, and on its terms -- it'll "kick yer ass."
The West has traded the Fear of God for the Fear of Islam.
Thank God I live in America. To think that some stuck up, fascist government could punish me for merely saying something someone else doesn't like.
Not so fast there, eh?
It's happening here too, just not quite as fast as in Australia.
In Califorina, public school kids are required to study and practice Islam in class. I am not exagerating in the least. Perhaps someone can provide some URLs. This has received quite a bit of coverage, yet, it persists.
Is this about Muslims or Mormons?
I don't think Mormons are into young boys.
Besides, many scholars have assured us that it's only due to an improper translation that the "82 virgins" story got started. The actual text refers to raisins, not virgins, so don't get your panties in a wad over it.
Now, as to the appropriate state of "waddishness" over the idea that crazed madmen would commit mass murder, so that they might earn 82 raisins in the afterlife...
Sometimes you don't know whether to laugh or cry. A few months back, some big league RAT said, when asked about taxes (I think it was a question during one of the beauty pagents "debates"), replied that the Bible said that it's OK to give to God what's God's, but the main thing was to give to Caesar what's Caesar's.
In one breathtaking statement, he not only reversed the meaning of Christ's message, but also equated the USA to the Roman Empire.
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