To: DoughtyOne
California is around $40 billion in debt today. Do you or do you not think the $30 billion dollar bill for educating the children of illegal aliens in just Los Angeles contributed to that? Sure, that's part of it. But, even conceding that the overall effect is negative, you have to look at the positive contributions immigrants both legal and illegal have made, and see where it comes out in the end. Besides, California would probably be able to handle all its immigrants if the tax and regulatory environment wasn't terrible, among other things.
118 posted on 02/29/2004 10:54:43 AM PST by JohnnyZ (People don't just bump into each other and have sex. This isn't Cinemax! -- Jerry)
Where republican administrations made choices that took illegal immigration into acocunt, and worked the budget over so it would balance, the democrat Gray Davis didn't. For this the chump got booted. So yes, in effect you can say that some of this is our fault. The fact still remains that we are being swamped by third world people crossing our border. I say third world because these folks have very little education, have no means of self-support upon arriving, and cannot communicate with those who could give them a helping hand up, even if they were qualified to work here.
In Davis defense, in the last five years the illegal alien population in the state about doubled. At some point there comes a time when you can't transfer more highway upkeep money, school improvement funds, more reserve funds to increase the ever-expanding costs of illegal immigrants.
You state that immigrants, yes even illegal ones make great contributions to our society. I think we all acknowledge the positive benefits from immigration in total. I think it's preposterous to claim that the illegal immigrant quotient doesn't differ.
I'm going to throw out some numbers here. You can feel free to challenge them. I'm not going to quote sources, so it's up to you if your gutt tells you this isn't reasonable.
The general illegal immigrant doesn't get paid substantial wages, so he isn't paying big dollars in state or federal withholding taxes. Many of them are paid funds under the table at construction sites and by local residents who hire them to do manual labor tasks. This situation is ripe for fraud. I'll touch on that later.
Many illegals have a child as soon as possible upon arriving in the United States. Some have them within months of arriving. Once that child is born on US soil, they are a US Citizen. Shortly thereafter, in the following years a second, third and fouth child come along. About five years later, these children start entering local schools. At the cost of about $8000 per child, each of those children will cost close to $100,000.00 to educate. With even three children that's close to one third of a million dollars. Tell me how a person making minimum wages, some of them even being paid under the table, is going to contribute enough to the state to be a positive assett.
When you heap the healthcare costs of a faimily of five on to that over seventeen to eighteen years, do you honestly think your claim that these people have a positive impact on our society? I have seen firsthand the impact these people have had on our health care industry. I have seen what the overpopulation has done to our schools. I have seen the impact on our roads, communities, crime and public safety.
Here's something else to consider. Once that anchor baby is born, he becomes a US citizen. As such he is eligable for public support. Now, that family that is obtaining payments under the table can claim that their income is far less than it actually is. And so the benefits are increased due to this flaw in the system. Add child two through whatever to this.
Do you still think this is a win win?
I think it's preposterous to claim that the illegal immigrant quotient doesn't differ. And I wouldn't claim that; just that both groups make some positive contribution.
Tell me how a person making minimum wages, some of them even being paid under the table, is going to contribute enough to the state to be a positive assett.
I said it would be negative on balance.
The general illegal immigrant doesn't get paid substantial wages, so he isn't paying big dollars in state or federal withholding taxes. Many of them are paid funds under the table at construction sites and by local residents who hire them to do manual labor tasks. This situation is ripe for fraud.
Sounds like you'd be in favor of a guest worker program to fix this problem :)
Do you still think this is a win win?
I never did. To enter Algore mode: "In MY plan, illegal immigration would not be tolerated, while legal immigration would be welcomed, up to a relatively high limit. Anyone trying to come to America ILLegally would be placed in a lockbox and shipped to Guadalajara." Plus a modest guest-worker program.