Posted on 02/27/2004 4:49:24 PM PST by PhiKapMom
What part of "just" didn't you understand?
You stated "the evidence against McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier is pretty damn airtight"
Where did I suggest that it wasn't?
But anyone who believes that McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier were the only ones involved -- the Denver Post named two people who actually tried to speak to McVeigh and the others (none was Nichols or Fortier) -- is wearing a tinfoil hat too tight. :)
BET you've NEVER seen this -
- excerpted from ... a published work ...
Well, if it isn't FR's resident Clinton-OKC apologist. You know, for years we thought you might actually be posting from the White House basement or something. So much for that theory. My second theory tended to be that you were some kind of weirdo who sat around FR 24/7, collecting cut-&-paste, irrelevant trivia on your hard drive to post on any OKC thread that popped up. You do it so well, Jim. You are very adept at hijacking OKC threads and changing the subject..
Maybe we should just stick with our popular "he's-on-Louis-Freeh's-payroll" theory, eh? I always hate it when I find out someone here is nothing but a dork and doesn't quite live up to our best expectations.
And by the way, if you'll care to dig up a reference for that "published work," maybe then I'll spend time reading it. C'mon, you've been here long enough to know FR's stringent rules about sourcing what you post.
I'll see your Denver Post 'claim' and raise you one 'trumping' Michael Fortier - state's witness against McVeigh and one who filled in a number of details - no mention of 'others' in his testimony either apparently:
Michael Fortier read the following statement during his sentencing hearing, although some of his testimony differed from the written statement. He was sentenced to 12 years in prison for failing to warn authorities of the bombing plot, transporting stolen weapons, and lying to FBI agents when he was questioned after the bombing. Note: Every effort has been made to precisely duplicate the content of the six-page handwritten statement of Michael Fortier. Spelling and style errors have been left intact. Your Honor, I'd like to thank the Court for giving me this opportunity to speak. I would also like to express my gratitude towards the U.S. Attorneys. It was clear to me, at times, that they were working under a heavey burden and yet they always treated me with respect and gave me fair treatment. I have heard complaints that the F.B.I. have not done their job well. I have even complained about their treatment. This was before I got an inside look at how hard these people work. I know, by the questions that have been asked of me, that the F.B.I. has completely and thoroughly investigated the Oklahoma City bombing. They deserve all of our thanks. My appreciation goes out to the U.S. Marshalls for their protection, transportation, and concern for my well being. My lawyer, Mr. McGuire, has done so much for me. He always goes the extra mile and is, without a doubt, an excellent attorney. He is a caring and compassionate human being who I will forever be in debt. Most importantly, my special thanks to the U.S. taxpayers. They have provided me, at no little cost, a level of legal representation I otherwise would not have had. Thank you all. Your Honor, I shamefully admit that I have broken many laws. My actions and inactions have hurt a great number of people. I apologize to the good people of Oklahoma, Mr. Moore of Arkansas, my family, and the general public. You have all suffered for what I have done and what I failed to do. In the fall of 1994, I was first asked by Tim McVeigh to help him and Terry Nichols blow up a building. I considered it an outlandish request and gave an equally outlandish and negative response. Later, Tim explained to me how and why they wanted to do this. Very specific threats were made and, although I should have, I did not notify the police. In December of 1994, I conspired to transport and then I did transport stolen weapons. I had to travel from Arizona to Kansas to get them. I was motivated by greed and did not care that they were stolen. On the way there, I was shown the building in Oklahoma City that was being plotted against. I had neither the intent nor the desire to exit the highway that morning and I say for all to hear that I did not case the Murrah building. I did not and have not ever looked at any building with malice. Yet, I must add, I still did not take the information I had to the police. In the spring of 1995, I was asked again by Tim to help with the bombing plan. I was told that Terry no longer wanted to help and then asked if I would do this or would I do that. I replied that I would not help in any way. In another, later, conversation, I was told that we were no longer friends. Tim said he was on the high road and I was on the low road. Clearly we were both on the low road. When I last saw him I thought his plan would never bear fruit. I thought he was heading to another part of the country to find people more like himself. I was terribly wrong. I deeply regret not taking the information I had to the police. I should have let th epolice judge his intentions. Clearly I could not. I sometimes daydream that I did do this and I became a hero, but reality is that I am not. The F.B.I. first spoke with me on the 21st of April. This day I proved beyond any doubt how self-centered and cowardly I could be. In the face of ungodly destruction and an ocean of grief I put myself first. I did not want anyone to know that I knew what had happened. I lied to the F.B.I. repeatedly and I concealed evidence I thought they would want. My actions were terrible and I am so completely ashamed that I did not come forth with my knowledge right way. In May of 1995, I was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in Oklahoma City. I decided to drive there from Arizona and it was this drive that was a turning point for me. After much consideration, I decided to tell what I knew. I was appointed a lawyer and I started to cooperate with the authorities. I have been honest in my testimony and eager to help in any way. Your Honor, I understand there is nothing I can say or do now that can make up for what I did an didn't do then. Cooperating with the authorities now does not change the facts. When I should have been thinking of the safety of my fellow man I was only thinking of myself. Nothing I say will change the past but maybe I can say something to affect the future. I have paid close attention to the testimony given by the bombing survivors. I do this in an effort to understand what they went through and indeed are still going through. The stories are so horrifing, so heartbreaking, and so full of human suffering that I cannot bear them. I am too weak to contemplate them for long. I feel as if my mind will break and I'll cry and cry and never stop. I cannot say that I understand the depth of their grief but I try. What I have come to understand is their strength. For them to deal with this horror on a daily basis and not let it destroy them shows strength of charactor that is unsurpassed. I have found a deep respect for these people. Dear people, please, I offer my apology and I ask you to forgive me. I offer my apology in the hope that if you will accept it the pain I have caused you will be reduced. Let the anger you feel towards me drain from your hearts and be replaced with feelings of peace. Please, please, don't let thoughts of me continue to hurt you. Your Honor, for the last three years I have done my best to correct my behavior. My mind is clear and drug free. I no longer crave crystal-meth and have gained thirty pounds while in jail. I am cleaned up on the inside as well as the outside. I have helped the Oklahoma City bombing victims and survivors by helping the Federal prosecutors and will continue to due so on a state level. Thank you, Sir, for allowing me to speak. I assert that these words are my own and have come solely from within. Michael J. Fortier
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Amen to that. And thanks for the wonderful reply.
Bzzzzt!
Be careful - you're treading on a case of libel (or is it slander) here ...
You MUST be thinking of MurrayMom or somebosy like Ash ...
THIS is the SHAM theory that michael redvero 'pushed' for so long ...
See how well you do that? You've been practicing, haven't you?
Here all of us are, sitting here on an OKC thread having an intelligent conversation and you bring in Rivero, someone who was banned from FR years ago because of his high kook factor.
You're so much fun to watch.
Bingo. I'm with you. And what a good one, too.
Checkmate!
Aw, c'mon back! Everyone knows to ignore him anyway. Just skip over his posts. :-)
It's *also* the SHAM theory pushed by The New American and a ex-USAF general named Partin ... feeling better now?
BTW, the truth doesn't need embellishment or hyperbole to stand - it just needs the light of day, that's why I'm here ...
When I sit here too long, I've found that things just don't get done. But then we all knew that already, huh? ;-)
The waitress who witnessed them suicided.
Jayna Davis established a good case that John Doe #2 was an Iraqi Republican Guard veteran.
Terry Nichols' trip to the Philippines may have coincided with the presence there of Ramzi Yousef of WTC I infamy.
The white guy speeding away without a license plate, possessing a loaded gun has all the earmarks of a designated red herring.
Clinton replaced Woolsey with Deutch, while the BATF knew enough to stay away from Murrah.
Oh, I never doubted it was white guys, from the very first reports of the white van, to the CIA animation of the nose of Flight 800 streaking upward, I knew whom to believe.
Certainly not my lying eyes.
Oh, I see.
A WOMAN'S THREAD - no logic allowed.
Sorry to have interjected rationale and facts.
Please accept my apology.
Of course, Jim.
Of course, Jim.
For anyone interested in the Denver Post coverage including its six-month investigation of the bombing see (sorry for the dup if it was referenced above)
http://63.147.65.175/bomb/bomb.htm
select "1996 archives"
sekect "In-depth reports"
select "Who bombed the Murrah Building? Dec. 15 "
or, go here, http://63.147.65.175/bomb/okspec.htm
You can also read the witnesses experiences in more detail at
"Witnesses tell a different story," by Mark Eddy Denver Post Staff Writer, June 1996 at
http://63.147.65.175/bomb/report17.htm
No, at no time did one of the men the witnesses saw say, "Hi! I'm Tim McVeigh and we're here to bomb a government building. . . ."
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