Setting Straight Kerry’s War Record (Admiral Zumwalt on Kerry)

New York Sun ^ | February 27, 2004 | Thomas Lipscomb

[Clodia Pulcher]

"Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, told me — 30 years ago when he was still CNO —that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass,by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets.‘We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control,’"

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Not true. I was in the Navy when Zumwalt was appointed by Nixon as the CNO. "Zoomie" was appointed CNO in 1968.

i think we're both a little confused with the time frame...Nixon wasn't President until January, 1969. i can't recall Kerry's actual dates of service in theatre, so it is entirely possible that we're both right or both wrong. A long time ago, unfortunately.

[Outraged]

So, no, Kerry didn't colaborate Zumwalt's statement, he admitted what Zumwalt and other commanders would have expected him to do in a combat zone. In short, Kerry said NOHING, and his admission is a non-admission, to cover his gigilo @$$

I appreciate your analysis, and I defer to your knowledge of the details of engaging the enemy. In this case, however, we are engaged in a battle of words and propaganda.

It would be exhausting to tear apart Kerry's arguments in detail so I feel his words should be the sword that we push him upon. He admits to being a war criminal, lets hold him to it. It is obvious that the "Winter Soldier" speech was written by a communist agitator and was a total fiction. So we have two weapons now...His inconsistency, i.e., he is LIAR...and he committed WAR CRIMES and tried to cover his crimes by falsifying testimony that instigated communist sympathizers to spit on homecoming soldiers and aided and abetted the enemy.

[kabar]

There is some dispute whether it is illegal to use a .50 caliber against personnel

http://www.blarg.net/~minsq/NCArchive/00000210.htm

The Desert Storm memoir Jarhead by former Marine Corps sniper Anthony Swofford details his unit's understanding of the law regarding .50 caliber guns. Swofford's platoon was among the first to use the new .50 caliber Barrett sniper rifle, but was first given a stern warning by the instructor.

By the way, you know you can’t hit a human target with a .50-caliber weapon, right? It’s in the Geneva Convention. So you hit the gas tank on their vehicle, and they get blown the hell up, but you can’t target some lonely guard or a couple of towlies in an OP calling in bombs.

Maybe a different reporter might have explored that issue, yes, but it would ultimately be an exercise in futility, for the simple fact of the matter is that, contrary to what Swofford's instructor believed, there is nothing in the Geneva Conventions, or the Additional Protocols, regulating the use of large-calibre machinegun ammunition, at least, not that I could discern. But to play it safe, I checked my copy of Dutch army manual VS 2-1351, Handboek voor het kader ("field manual for officers and NCOs"), 1991 edition. Chapter 16 covers the maintenance and operation of the mitrailleur Browning .50 inch M2 HB. Section 4.c has the goods (translated from the Dutch): Types of targets

- Weapons emplacements.

- Lightly armoured and unarmoured vehicles.

- Directly attacking aircraft.

- Slow, low-flying aircraft.

- Paratroopers.

- Helicopters,

- troops on foot, both in cover and in the open.

Emphasis in bold mine. The Netherlands is a state party to damn near every treaty regulating warfare ever made, so when a Dutch army manual says it's legal to fire a .50-cal at personnel, it's a safe bet that this is the case.

[BroncosFan]

Ping from my fave newspaper! A must read. Too bad Bush will never frontally engage him on his 'Nam service (for obvious reasons).

[Clodia Pulcher]

Zumwalt was totally conversant with Kerry's anti-war efforts... that is what makes this so interesting. At one point he was infuriated by it.

Maybe the aging admiral and the aging Lt have something in common... they both were willing to change their opionions and box the compass with them at a moment's notice for a photo op.

[ZULU]

WHY isn't this lying phoney traitor being pressured by ANYBODY to release the details of his "Purple Heart" medals????

The Repubs failed to go after Clinton on his mysterious trip to the Soviet Union during the Viet Nam War, or his mother's trip there.

Unless they pull out all the stops, they will wind up on the High ROad to defeat with this guy.

Exposing his turpitude will at least energize Bush's right-wing detractors, if nothing else.

[kabar]

Perhaps you are right. Politics make strange bedfellows, methinks.

[kabar]

Kerry has had more than 30 years to cover his trail and close to 25 years in public office to develop a strategy to confront whatever scrutiny is directed against him. Now that GWB has released his military records, Kerry should be pressed to do the same.

It will be a hard nut to crack because his past history has shown that when pressed by an opponent, Kerry pulls the Vietnam card. His antiwar activities offer the best opportunity to counter the Vietnam card, but it has the risk of raising the entire rightness/wrongness of the war, which divided a generation.

[DustyMoment]

Yeah, I had to back away from it. I checked Zoomie's obit and it stated that he was appointed CNO in December of 70. I knew he was CNO for a part of my Navy career because my squadron deployed to MCAS Iwakuni, Japan, shortly after Zoomie issued the "Z-gram" about sailors not having to comply with Marine haircut requirements. It caused no end of trouble between us and the Marines on the base. Things got so bad that our CO actually looked into whether or not we could move the squadron up to Atsugi for the remainder of our deployment. Some Admiral came to investigate but denied the request. He tried to get the Marines to back off. Ultimately, we reached an uneasy truce.

Good times!!!! :-)

[Hon]

"Moreover, Kerry has participated with Zumwalt in dedicating a monument to the role of Swift boats..."

Yes, Zumwalt is quoted as saying nice things at a monument dedication for Swift boats that KERRY had pushed through Congress.

http://www.swiftboats.org/pcf1.htm

I don't think it is too likely that Zumwalt is going to say anything too negative about Kerry under those circumstances. Though, if you read his other remarks at that event he tweaks Kerry by saying that Operation Sealord got the Navy out of Vietnam five years before the war ended.

Interestingly enough, Kerry didn't always feel this way about such monuments. But I guess this was important to him since it helps celebrate his non-stop heroism in Vietnam.

(Kerry has a wallm, really a shrine, in his Senate office dedicated to his heroic four months in VN. He even has a model of his PCF boat. Oddly enough JFK had had a model of his PT-109 in his Senate office.)

Anyway this is what he wrote about such things in his 1971 book "The New Soldier":

"We will not take solace from the creation of monuments or the naming of parks after a select few of the thousands of dead Americans and Vietnamese. We will not uphold traditions which decorously memorialize that which was base and grim."

He meant of course, except when the select few people being honored including himself.

[Clodia Pulcher]

Interesting points... but remember... ADM Zumwalt made this comment back in 77 when he was CNO... .

Things had to look a lot different when the old seadog had been out of the limelight for years 20 years later and Kerry held the gangplank.

We saw what happened to ADM Moorer with the CBS nerve gas "expose"

[kabar]

When it comes to Vietnam, Kerry truly is a walking contradiction. Kerry is obviously obsessed with Vietnam, but I think more out of political calculation than an emotional investment--at least his brief wartime experience. His anti-war activities are probably more influential on his world view.

Vietnam has worked well for Kerry in terms of furthering his political ambitions. Why should he stop now? Vietnam and his band of brothers have been used in most of his campaigns. He used the VVAW to gain national prominence, appearing on MTP and 60 minutes, after his early out from the USN and failed Congressional bid. Unfortunately, Kerry has learned the wrong lessons from Vietnam, which make him a poor choice to be CIC. I doubt if he could employ US military power to protect our vital national interests. He seems to think US military force is to be used only for humanitarian causes.

Zumwalt's relationship with Kerry could have been influenced by his [Zumwalt's] son's battle with Agent Orange and eventual death. Kerry was active in Congress in seeking redress for veterans who were affected. This may have mellowed Zumwalt's attitude toward Kerry.

See my post #48. Kerry has plenty of experience of dealing with those who question his war record. We know his playbook. I still think his service records need to be released, but GWB should not be associated in any way with that effort. Bill Weld tried it and lost.

[Clodia Pulcher]

Human motivation is a strange thing... what if Kerry's VVAW obsession was some kind of attempt to purge himself of the very thing Zumwalt is accusing him of? Confessing.. but cheating like we are all too likely to do by folding it into "I know it's wrong but everyone else did it too... and I'm sorry."

[RippleFire]

bump

[goodnesswins]

Hmmmm.....you might want to look at the pictures in the link below....Kerry with JFK on a yacht.....etc.....I think THERE IS A STRONG CONNECTION!!!

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

[DustyMoment]

"Kerry, who often alluded to having the same initials as President Kennedy, is pictured ON THE LEFT sailing with President Kennedy."

Well they got that part correct . . . he is definitely on the left.

Seems I missed that part of Kerry's background. Thanks for bringing me up to date.

[Jeff Chandler]

you kiss Kerry's ass.

LOL! That's what I get for omitting the sarcasm tags.

[Clodia Pulcher]

Sorry about that... Broken Arrow...

[Lancey Howard]

Wow!!
Bumped and bookmarked.

[FReethesheeples]

Nasty John the French Undertaker, personally endorsed by Jacques Chirac, is a weapon of mass economic destruction. He'll destroy the troops in Iraq, the War on Terrorism, & the U.S. stock market with all his negative talk and whiny-leftist-liberal sour-puss troop-bashing, Bush-bashing, America-bashing talk & personality.