[Dan from Michigan]

Litmus test amendment for my vote. BTW - Ted Kennedy on CSPAN mentioned the .223 and .30-30.

[CholeraJoe]

Time to stock up on some more SS-109, NATO surplus green tip.

[Delmarksman]

Every single type of Centerfire Rifle Ammo on the market is able to penetrate Body Armor.

[Joe Brower]

[Dan from Michigan]

BTW - I THINK THE VOTE IS TUESDAY

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

What should be banned is Kennedy's drunkenness and utter lack of principles at all levels.

[MagnusMaximus1]

Most of us here already know who all the bad guys are (ie. Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, etc).

Maybe it's time for us to start posting the names of and info. regarding potential RINOs and other Benedict Arnolds who are needed to pass any compromises, amendments and other attachments to the Gunmakers relief bill.

[Sir Gawain]

Is it time yet?

[TaxRelief]

Time to FReep the legislators.

[templar]

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

This is more than an ammo ban if I read it correctly. It's a ban against such things as the pulled SS109 projectiles that are available cheaply on the surplus markets that are used by re-loaders.

[Sender]

I have always felt that ammo bans are potentially more disastrous to us than these silly cosmetic gun bans. After all, a 'post-ban' AW shoots just as well as a 'pre-ban', and an old bolt-action often shoots even better, especially when scoped. I could get by with my single-shot 45-70 if need be. But if they manage to make effective ammo illegal then we're all screwed, and it has begun.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Text of the Second Amendment
"A well regulated Militia
being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Anyone who actually reads AND understands the 2nd Amendment will see that there is no need or authority for any type of gun registration and there is no need for anyone to have to apply for a license to carry a gun.
Any political party, politician, judge (etc), organization or individual who trys to convince you that:
1) you must register a firearm
2) you must pass a background check
3) you must wait (x) amount of days before you can get your firearm
4) you need to have a license to carry a gun
is either uneducated about OUR rights as citizens
OR is actively working to undermine OUR country.

How Did the Founders Understand the Second Amendment?

CONGRESS in 1866, 1941 and 1986 REAFFIRMS THE SECOND AMENDMENT
The Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment right to keep and bear firearms,
originated in the United States Congress in 1789 before being ratified by the States.
On three occasions since then--in 1866, 1941, and 1986--
Congress enacted statutes to reaffirm this guarantee of personal freedom
and to adopt specific safeguards to enforce it.

ON THE DAY BEFORE Thanksgiving 1993,
the 103d US Congress brought forth a constitutional turkey.
The 103d Congress decided that the Second Amendment did not mean what it said
("...shall not be infringed") and passed the Brady bill.
How the Brady Bill Passed (and subsequently - "Instant Check")
When the Brady Bill was passed into law on November 24, 1993,
the Senate voted on the Conference Report
and passed the Brady Bill by UNANIMOUS CONSENT.

[Calamari]

A couple of good calibers for the Thompson Center Contender pistol. It is a single shot but still a handgun.

[ought-six]

"The Swimmer" is as clueless as a human being can get when it comes to firearms, but he will say he's an expert because two of his brothers were killed by firearms.

[Redbob]

Sounds like Larry Craig's amendment.

[Shooter 2.5]

READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I mentioned that there had been a homicide in Massachusetts recently, over 18 months. It was juvenile homicide. I ask that the Record be so corrected.

As we all know too well, the debate about gun violence has often been aggressive and polarizing with anti-gun violence advocates on one side of the debate, pro-gun advocates on the other. There are deep divisions in the country on the issue of gun safety, and the current debate on the gun immunity bill has thus far only served to highlight those divisions.

I believe, however, that there are still some principles on which we can all agree. One principle is that we should do everything we can to protect the lives and safety of police officers who are working to protect our streets, schools, and communities.

The amendment I am offering today is intended to close the existing loopholes in the Federal law that bans cop-killer bullets. Police officers depend on body armor for their lives. Body armor has saved thousands of police officers from death or serious injury by firearm assault. Most police officers who serve large jurisdictions wear armor at all times when on duty. Nevertheless, even with body armor, too many police officers remain vulnerable to gun violence.

According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, every year between 50 and 80 police officers are feloniously killed in the line of duty. In 2002, firearms were used in 51 of the 56 murders of police officers. In those shootings, 34 of the officers were wearing body armor at the time of their deaths. From 1992 to 2002, at least 20 police officers were killed after bullets penetrated their armor vests and entered their upper torso.

Some gun organizations have argued that cop-killer bullets are a myth. The families of these slain police officers know better. In fact, we know that armor-piercing ammunition is not a myth because it is openly and notoriously marketed and sold by gun dealers.

I direct my colleagues' attention to the Web site of Hi-Vel, Incorporated, a self-described exotic products distributor and manufacturer in Delta, UT. You can access its online catalog on the Internet right now. Hi-Vel's catalog lists an entry for armor-piercing ammunition. On that page you will find a listing for armor-piercing bullets that can penetrate metal objects. The bullets are available in packages of 10 for $9.95 each. Hi-Vel carries armor-piercing bullets for both the .223 caliber rifles such as the Bushmaster sniper rifle used in the Washington area attacks in October 2002, and the 7.62 caliber assault weapons. Over the past 10 years, these two caliber weapons were responsible for the deaths of 14 of the 20 law enforcement officers killed by ammunition that penetrated body armor.

In a recent report, the ATF identified three, .223 and the 7.62 caliber rifles, as the ones most frequently encountered by police officers. These high-capacity rifles, the ATF wrote, pose an enhanced threat to law enforcement, in part because of their ability to expel particles at velocities that are capable of penetrating the type of soft body armor typically worn by law enforcement officers.

Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

[e_castillo]

Thanks for the post.

[fire_eye]

(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.

Yeah, right. Hey Senator Souse... Don't fry your one remaining braincell trying to define "armor piercing" and "armor", etc. the way Schumerstein did defining "assault rifle".

We need to attack this as another useless ill-defined expensive non-solution to whatever nonexistent problem it is the Demonrats have conjured up this time. Possibly, we could propose legislation adding further criminal penalties for shooting somebody using armor-piercing ammunition... that ought to make liberals happy.

Not to change the subject, but that reminds me... what happened to Fiendswine's attempt to ban possession of body armor by anyone other than der Politzei? Don't tell me it actually died the horrible death it deserved...

[Dan from Michigan]

BUMP

[Dan from Michigan]

BTTT

[Dan from Michigan]

BUMP