Senate amendment 2619 (To S1805) - TED KENNEDY'S AMMO BAN - AG can ban ANY centerfire ammo

Thomas | 2-27-04 | Ted Kennedy

[Dan from Michigan]

SA 2619. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1805, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their products by others; as follows:

On page 11, after line 19, add the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or centerfire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

[G.Mason]

"Don't forget the tracers and the .50 BMG."

Do you know something you're not telling me? ;)

[umgud]

The hard cast bullets I use in firing .454 Casull rounds out of my handgun are designed to penetrate. Will I have to use HP's to hunt big game now?

What a bunch grabbers and morons.

[TaxRelief]

Time to FReep the legislators.

[unixfox]

...while most of the country is hearing about Super Tuesday's presidential primary elections, gay marriage, smoking bans, Passion of Christ, etc, etc. :-\

[templar]

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

This is more than an ammo ban if I read it correctly. It's a ban against such things as the pulled SS109 projectiles that are available cheaply on the surplus markets that are used by re-loaders.

[Sender]

I have always felt that ammo bans are potentially more disastrous to us than these silly cosmetic gun bans. After all, a 'post-ban' AW shoots just as well as a 'pre-ban', and an old bolt-action often shoots even better, especially when scoped. I could get by with my single-shot 45-70 if need be. But if they manage to make effective ammo illegal then we're all screwed, and it has begun.

[Dan from Michigan]

Well, if they ban centerfire...I gotta get my ammo somewhere......

[TC Rider]

BTW - I THINK THE VOTE IS TUESDAY

And even, if passed with every poison pill in the Senate, it still needs to go through the conference committee and then sent back to the House and Senate for anther vote.

A dirty bill will never make it back out of the House.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Text of the Second Amendment
"A well regulated Militia
being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Anyone who actually reads AND understands the 2nd Amendment will see that there is no need or authority for any type of gun registration and there is no need for anyone to have to apply for a license to carry a gun.
Any political party, politician, judge (etc), organization or individual who trys to convince you that:
1) you must register a firearm
2) you must pass a background check
3) you must wait (x) amount of days before you can get your firearm
4) you need to have a license to carry a gun
is either uneducated about OUR rights as citizens
OR is actively working to undermine OUR country.

How Did the Founders Understand the Second Amendment?

CONGRESS in 1866, 1941 and 1986 REAFFIRMS THE SECOND AMENDMENT
The Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment right to keep and bear firearms,
originated in the United States Congress in 1789 before being ratified by the States.
On three occasions since then--in 1866, 1941, and 1986--
Congress enacted statutes to reaffirm this guarantee of personal freedom
and to adopt specific safeguards to enforce it.

ON THE DAY BEFORE Thanksgiving 1993,
the 103d US Congress brought forth a constitutional turkey.
The 103d Congress decided that the Second Amendment did not mean what it said
("...shall not be infringed") and passed the Brady bill.
How the Brady Bill Passed (and subsequently - "Instant Check")
When the Brady Bill was passed into law on November 24, 1993,
the Senate voted on the Conference Report
and passed the Brady Bill by UNANIMOUS CONSENT.

[Calamari]

A couple of good calibers for the Thompson Center Contender pistol. It is a single shot but still a handgun.

[archy]

Maybe it's time for us to start posting the names of and info. regarding potential RINOs and other Benedict Arnolds who are needed to pass any compromises, amendments and other attachments to the Gunmakers relief bill.

Like Republican NRA Director Larry Craig, and his good friends, upon whose faces he keeps such big smiles?

Fri Feb 27, 8:41 AM ET

Sen. Hillary Clinton), D-N.Y. laughs after being introduced as being from Texas by Sen. Larry Craig R-Idaho, during a press conference on foster care with actor Bruce Willis at the U.S. Capitol in Washington Wednesday, June 11, 2003. Behind her are Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, right.

(AP Photo/Gerald Herbert)

[bandleader]

You are absolutely CORRECT!I have a couple of 8mm.Mausers,and regular FMJ ammo is capable of peircing body-armor!!"The Grabbers" NEVER give up!!!!!!

[looscnnn]

"These are clearly poison pill amendments meant to kill the bill. I would rather have no bill than further restrictions, and I guess, that is the purpose."

We can only hope that that is the case. I have a feeling that if it isn't and all this crap becomes law all hell will break loose.

[El Gato]

A couple of good calibers for the Thompson Center Contender pistol. It is a single shot but still a handgun

Exactly, by the same logic that banned steel core ammo because a few pistols chamber 7.62x39, they will use the performance standard of "can penetrate a vest" to ban anything that has every been, or could be, chambered in a handgun. And because th TC contender, and others like it as well as the various AR based "pistols" that will include most common rifle cartridges.

This Kennedy amendment is every bit as bad as the AWB.

[blackie]

The Second Amendment...
America's Original Homeland Security!

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists and the democrats are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

[ought-six]

"The Swimmer" is as clueless as a human being can get when it comes to firearms, but he will say he's an expert because two of his brothers were killed by firearms.

[Calamari]

Agree! I have 3 other pistols in my safe that fire various 7mm (.284) wildcat calibers that will shoot through various thicknesses of steel plate.

Even the "wimpy" xp100 in 7 TCU (.223 case necked up to 7mm) will punch holes in 1/4 inch steel plate at 150 meters.

You can still buy on the used market xp100s chambered in .308 (7.62 nato) and 7-08 both calibers are factory produced ammo no reloading required and would shred most vests on both sides.

[Travis McGee]

Some Quisling will make "Nerf Ammo" out of rubber, and after that, the govt will say all OTHER types of ammo in that caliber are banned for their AP capability.

[Redbob]

Sounds like Larry Craig's amendment.

[yhwhsman]

Every single type of Centerfire Rifle Ammo on the market is able to penetrate Body Armor.

As I understand it, body armor is only designed to stop a few specific rounds. A few years ago several police officers I knew told me that a .22 would go through body armor, since it's a very small caliber moving at a high speed.