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To: tracer
I was thinking in terms of the physics of a small, medium-to-high velocity round slipping through the fibers of an old-style Kevlar vest.

The Mauser/Tokarev (7.62x25) will cut through those like a hot knife through butter. It's like a .30 cal. pocket rifle, approx. 1400 FPS, IIRC. I was hunting bowling pins with a friend. I was knocking them over with my .45, and he was getting increasingly frustrated at being unable to hit any of them with his new Tokarev.

Then we examined the pins. His flew clean through them, without even making them wobble.

I once ran into someone who had an AD with one. He dropped it, and it discharged. Went through his legbone, then through his knee bone, then out, then through a 4x4 post, and kept on flying. It's probably in low earth orbit. (j/k)

As for death due to shock wave, that's what trauma plates are designed to diffuse and absorb.

Ah, but there's the rub. No one wears trauma plates in day to day operations. You can't get them to wear them. It's all the departments can do to get their officers wearing lightweight soft body armor. That's why all the money is in making wearable vests. And, that's why soft body armor will be the "gold standard" for these "tests" to determine which rounds are "armor-piercing" (IOW, all hunting rounds).

And if such prevented penetration, the laws of physics dictate that the total foot-pounds of energy hitting the target would be less than that existing at the muzzle. Rounds of small mass do not impart a great deal of energy to a target.

Ever hit a gallon milk jug filled with water with a "modest" load? Even a .50 muzzleloader will blast it to smithereens. Big, blunt cross section, similar to what would be produced by a vest that doesn't let something like a 30-30 penetrate (if they could come up with a soft vest that would stop such a load).

It wouldn't be pretty, and I would not volunteer to be the "test dummy"!

Basically, what we're looking at is a law that is aimed at common hunting loads. They will go right through any soft armor, and even if someone came up with soft armor that could stop them from penetrating, the blunt force trauma would be deadly, inlieu of a trauma plate, and for reasons explained above, they won't be factoring a trauma plate into their calculations.

182 posted on 02/27/2004 7:45:09 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe; Myrddin; Squantos
Has anyone gone and done the .30 > .22 sabot trick with the Tokarev? I'd like to know what kind of FPS you'd get out of a Tokarev with about a 55 grain .22 bullet.
195 posted on 02/27/2004 8:59:39 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Don Joe
Second-Chance reportedly has been getting reports of "failures" of their vests in which some wearers have been killed and injured.

I showed a published report about this to a G-Man friend of mine and he was surprised and chagrined that he had heard nothing through official channels. He had recoomended Second-Chance to me last year and related that their vests are standard issue in his outfit (ICE)........

249 posted on 02/28/2004 3:32:57 AM PST by tracer
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