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To: Don Joe; Travis McGee
I was thinking in terms of the physics of a small, medium-to-high velocity round slipping through the fibers of an old-style Kevlar vest.

As for death due to shock wave, that's what trauma plates are designed to diffuse and absorb. And if such prevented penetration, the laws of physics dictate that the total foot-pounds of energy hitting the target would be less than that existing at the muzzle. Rounds of small mass do not impart a great deal of energy to a target.

The problem is that a round tumbling through soft tissue creates a shock cone that contains energy capable of rupturing blood vessels and hollow organs (e.g. heart, stomach, intestines) and disrupting vascular solid organs such as the spleen and liver, not to mention the semi-solid lungs. The effects of shock on the CNS (outside of the brain) also disrupts nerve impulses which control heartbeat and respiration....

181 posted on 02/27/2004 7:16:02 PM PST by tracer
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To: tracer
I was thinking in terms of the physics of a small, medium-to-high velocity round slipping through the fibers of an old-style Kevlar vest.

The Mauser/Tokarev (7.62x25) will cut through those like a hot knife through butter. It's like a .30 cal. pocket rifle, approx. 1400 FPS, IIRC. I was hunting bowling pins with a friend. I was knocking them over with my .45, and he was getting increasingly frustrated at being unable to hit any of them with his new Tokarev.

Then we examined the pins. His flew clean through them, without even making them wobble.

I once ran into someone who had an AD with one. He dropped it, and it discharged. Went through his legbone, then through his knee bone, then out, then through a 4x4 post, and kept on flying. It's probably in low earth orbit. (j/k)

As for death due to shock wave, that's what trauma plates are designed to diffuse and absorb.

Ah, but there's the rub. No one wears trauma plates in day to day operations. You can't get them to wear them. It's all the departments can do to get their officers wearing lightweight soft body armor. That's why all the money is in making wearable vests. And, that's why soft body armor will be the "gold standard" for these "tests" to determine which rounds are "armor-piercing" (IOW, all hunting rounds).

And if such prevented penetration, the laws of physics dictate that the total foot-pounds of energy hitting the target would be less than that existing at the muzzle. Rounds of small mass do not impart a great deal of energy to a target.

Ever hit a gallon milk jug filled with water with a "modest" load? Even a .50 muzzleloader will blast it to smithereens. Big, blunt cross section, similar to what would be produced by a vest that doesn't let something like a 30-30 penetrate (if they could come up with a soft vest that would stop such a load).

It wouldn't be pretty, and I would not volunteer to be the "test dummy"!

Basically, what we're looking at is a law that is aimed at common hunting loads. They will go right through any soft armor, and even if someone came up with soft armor that could stop them from penetrating, the blunt force trauma would be deadly, inlieu of a trauma plate, and for reasons explained above, they won't be factoring a trauma plate into their calculations.

182 posted on 02/27/2004 7:45:09 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: tracer
Here's another analogy.

Imagine a super-duper racecar. This car can go amazingly fast, several hundred MPH, and, it can stop on a dime.

Now, visualize a wooden broomstick attached to the front of the car, with the blunt, rounded end poking straight out.

Now, the punchline: the car drives toward you at full speed. The end of the broomstick hits you, center of mass, and pushes in -- without penetrating -- for about seven or eight inches. Then, the car comes to a dead stop.

What do you think your chances of survival would be?

The way I figure it, your skin might not tear, but you'd be ruptured to hell on the inside. And even if you didn't die instantly, you'd be in no shape to much other than lay there until the driver got out, removed the broomstick, and beat you over the head with it until you died! :)
185 posted on 02/27/2004 8:04:46 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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