What's the real historic, unbiased story of Florida 2000?

[HankReardon]

With the national election approaching, I'd like to be better informed about what happened in Florida 2000. Right now my view is that the Florida Supreme Court in a rogue act agreed to allow the changing of election rules after the election to attempt to enable the Democrats to count as votes improperly cast ballots. The Gore campaign blatantly choose to recount in the most predominately Democrat counties where their chances of manipulation was best. For the U.S. Supreme Court not to have stepped in and overruled the Florida Supremes and stop the goings on would have been neglect of duty. Seems very obvious to me but since many people stubbornly insist the President was "selected not elected" what is the objective, non-bias history of the events of the Florida election 2000.

[js1138]

Here's the issue the dems are hanging on to. In Duval County, there were approximately 27,000 ballots voided because votes were cast for more than one candidate. The best guess as to why the double voting happened is that many (presumably black) voters were given instruction pamphlets telling them to be sure to vote on every page. The problem arose because there were 10 or so presidential candidates, and the presidential ballot covered two pages. The pamphlets were printed by the democrats.

The problem for the democrats is that state law requires voiding ballots where votes have been cast for multiple candidates, because there is no objective way to determine the voter's intention.

There are obviously some democrats who believe a concerted legal challenge to this law would have prevailed. After all, it worked in New Jersey. They fault Gore for not pursuing this legal tact.

I might add, that a local alternative newspaper, "The Folio Weekly", just recently ran an editorial beating up the supervisor of elections for following the law, so this is still a burning issue.

Florida will not have this fiasco again, except in the three South Florida counties that had the recounts in 2000. All other counties have switched to optically scanned paper ballots, which have zero scanning errors and which can be easily interpreted by human eye. For example, is someone of limited intelligence tries to change a vote by crossing out a bubble, this can easily be interpreted in a recount. It is also possible in theory, to catch invalid ballots before they are placed in the box.

The three stupid counties chose the touch screen machines, and they were a fiasco in 2002. Not only do they not have a paper audit trail, but the election supervisors have proved too stupid to operate the machines. The 2002 elections were worse than 2000. Fortunately these counties are democratic, so the source of the mess can be correctly attributed.

[Quix]

Am curious . . . has anyone really compared the corruption of Lyndon Johnson to that of Billdo and Shrillery Clinton?

[Voteamerica]

Hey, I'm not saying that the people who complained were brain surgeons, and I certainly don't think any consideration AT ALL should have been given to their whining. My point was only that they aren't going to make a mistake again, and could that hurt the President.

But someone pointed out that at least as many people who would have voted Bush stayed home when the election was called so the difference is a wash.

Another point is that Jeb won by a large margin so there isn't any evidence that those voters will have any impact at all in '04.

My point was just a thought, I'm all cleared up on it now.

[PreviouslyA-Lurker]

Thank you and God bless you for the information and links to it.

[Cboldt]

The best approach is to strive to understand:

• Separation of powers between legislatures and judicial branches of states
• FLorida election law, particularly how and why it is structured into "pre-contest" and "contest" phases
• The text of the COnstitution, wherein it prescribes dates certain for presidential election results to be rendered

If you want to show that the SCOFLA was rogue (it was), then the pieces listed above are essential.

[Remole]

Look for the book, Bush v. Gore, edited by Wm. Kristol et al. Contains primary documents and contemporary opinion pieces.

One factor that your summary neglects is the certain development that the Florida Legislature had already made it clear that their set of electors would have been all for Bush; and recall that electors are chosen by the state legislature, really, not by the voters.

Also, the decision of SCOTUS was 7-2 that the Florida SC set up an unconstitutional means of counting votes; the 5-4 vote of the Supremes had to do with whether counting of votes should stop post-haste. Even if the voting had continued until Armageddon, Bush would still have won.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

You are very welcome, and thank you for the blessing.

Here's a little gift from Barry Farber to commemorate election 2000 (and lift spirits during election years to come): *** Our Side Found Heart ***

[HitmanLV]

Just do your homework, Einstein. Read as many of the historical accounts as you can. Fishing here for an 'answer' isn't productive. You can do it yourself.

[Ff--150]

"Everyone of the posters here would be banned from the DU for the views shared here. No exagerration, they do that there."

Not quite sure how that applies? You seemed to be seeking truth and the truth can be found in investigating VOTESCAM, which cannot be done here, but perhaps on google.

[dalebert]

Easy. Dems cheat.

[PreviouslyA-Lurker]

Thank you and God bless you and Robert A. Cook, PE, for the excellent link!

[Publius]

Collusion: The Day Before the 2000 Election

[PreviouslyA-Lurker]

Thank you again, Cowgirl.

[BlueNgold]

The Miami Herald, Washigton Post, NY Times, and others, post election, conducted independent recounts. Bush won every time. I was living in St Pete, and even the count conducted by the local liberal rag SP Times came out with a Bush win. It didn't get a lot of national coverage because they couldn't claim a Gore win. (Although the articles tried to say that statewide, dimple chad votes might have gone that way but there was no consistent or conclusive way to count dimples.)

From the 2001 article:
The results show that even if Gore had succeeded in his effort to force recounts of undervotes in the four Democratic counties, Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach and Volusia, he still would have lost, although by 225 votes rather than 537.

Note that the newspaper recount used the most expansive vote inclusion standard that included 'dimples', consistent ballots (Straight ticket assumption even when Bush or another was marked) etc. Thus, even if Gore had gotten everything he asked for in court ... he still loses. End of Story!

[Diddle E. Squat]

That's one of the best quick synopsis of FL2000 that I've read.

Thanks for posting, I'm going to use it in future discussions.

[Night Hides Not]

What's the best response to those who want to believe Bush was "awarded" the Presidency?

Cruel laughter, abject derision, and then kick sand in their face.

Man, that's the way I felt in Tulsa this past weekend. During the first half of the Gonzaga-Tulsa game, I heard "over-rated" from several Tulsa fans.

Didn't hear any more of that once GU went up by 20 with 10 minutes to go.

For all of you big-school fans out there, if you think Gonzaga is overrated, ask yourself:
Does Maryland think we're overrated?
Does Washington think we're overrated?
Does Missouri think we're overrated?
Plus, our nonconference schedule was ranked in the top-10. It's not our fault that the other schools in the WCC haven't improved their programs.

Frankly, I've just been enjoying the ride for the past six years. The Zags are among the most cost efficient teams in the top-25, with a budget of $1.5 million vs. the $4 million-plus budgets of Duke, Texas, and others. The budget will probably increase to $2 million next year, as they'll be moving into a new arena.

Ok, back on topic. What cracks me up about the 2000 election is the focus on the popular vote, not the electoral votes. Our populace is so lacking in American history it's laughable. The outcome of the 2000 election is a testament to the foresight and brilliance of our founding fathers.

And all Algore had to do was win his own state!

[SW6906]

Next time try reading the thread before cvommenting so as to not embarass oneself.......

[Night Hides Not]

Agreed! I rely on many of my fellow Freepers as a reference source.

As Gore/Loserman said in 2000, "let's not get snippy about it".

[Wolfstar]

I don't know if this is the "best response," but it certainly is the most direct and true one: Al Gore tried to steal the election.

With the networks flip-flopping over their predictions, and with black agitators already out in the streets claiming black voters were disenfranchised, Gore's team saw an opening to try to illegitimately grab Florida's electoral votes. All of the things you mention happened after that decision was made — and as a result of it.

If Al Gore had wanted a legitimate statwide recount, he easily could have obtained one. However, the one glaring fact that should tell anyone with an ounce of common sense that Gore knew he legitimately lost, but was interested in stealing the election, is that he only asked for recounts in heavily Democrat areas where the election machinery was controlled by Dems. Everything else — the lawsuits, the press conferences, mobilizing of the media punditocracy to help confuse the public, all of it — was a smokescreen intended to give the local Dem election officials time to manufacture votes for Gore. We are very, very fortunate that three things occured to prevent the theft:

(1) The local officials were largely incompetent and nervous about executing the theft under the glare of a national spotlight.

(2) Republicans nationwide actually mobilized and fought back for once instead of adhering to their customary passivity. (Thank God the decision wasn't in the hands of Republican senators, shudder.)

(3) The Florida Supreme Court way overreached in a blatant attempt to help Gore, giving the U.S. Supreme Court an opening to end the nonsense.

Had any one of those three things not occurred, Gore would have succeeded in stealing the election. He would have been president on 9/11 and who knows the condition the country would be in today.

[HitmanLV]

I didn't embarass myself.