Gun bills may trigger split

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | Feb 23, 2004 | Brian DeBose

[neverdem]

The Senate will begin another debate on federal gun laws this week, and at least one issue may put it at odds with Republicans in the other chamber.

A Republican-led bill to immunize gun makers from wrongful-death claims is expected to hit the floor tomorrow, but Democrats and liberal Republicans will propose an amendment to extend the federal assault-weapons ban, possibly setting up a showdown with the House.

[looscnnn]

"As long as they are done, why should you care?"

If they get done, great. They haven't yet, if they don't under his watch I will see it as pandering and will meet anyone he endorses for President with extreme speculation.

[neverdem]

I can't wait to see what rating Daschle gets this next election.

IIRC, The NRA maintains records of the answers from all the pols who return their questionaires. Hopefully Thune's lifetime record is better than Daschle's. Thune was in the House for 3 terms.

[Jack Black]

I've never been to DU. I am not a Troll. I've been on FR since 1998, I think. My comments on bringing on the left police state were made in this thread, also.

When I first heard these suggestions, from others on FR .. during the Gore election, I thought they were stupid. Now, I'm really not so sure. I put them up to provoke discussion, they are intentionally provocative, but not, in my judgement outside the bounds of reason.

I believe something much more drastic than voting for Bush and his ilk MUST take place in the next 10 to 15 years if we are not to end up in a very, very grim place. Bush has signed legislation like Patriot Act that WILL be used by some administration like Clinton1. Imagine Janet Reno with the powers Ashcroft now has. The RKBA is CONSTANTLY whittled away, it doesn't go in the other direction. The cuffs are always tighter.

This doesn't even include the atomic-bomb of 10 million illegal Mexicans being granted citizenship.

I liked the idea of the Free State Project, though I doubt the will succeed.

It's easy to say "we get what we deserve" but I'd like to think there are several million freedom lovers who want to live in the Constitutional Republic we supposedly do.

Has GWB done ANYTHING to roll back the huge edifice of unconstitutional laws? Does he ever mention the Constitution? NO! In fact he signed McCain/Feingold.

[Mulder]

Thanks for the ping.

I've been reading a lot of the gun forums of late, and it's apparent that Bush is in big trouble politically.

Basically, 25% of the posters have made up their mind to vote against Bush (third party), 25% will vote for him, and 50% are waiting to see what happens to the AWB.

Keep in mind, that last election, nearly 100% of these guys voted for Bush and many donated money or worked on his campaign.

Bottom line: If he signs it, he'll lose the election. If not, he still might lose.

[Dave Olson]

I believe something much more drastic than voting for Bush and his ilk MUST take place in the next 10 to 15 years if we are not to end up in a very, very grim place.

I don't see how deliberately putting this country into a leftist police state will make it into anything other than that very, very grim place. The idea that people will get so angry that they will quickly once-and-for-all overthrow it for a Jeffersonian democracy is a romantic one, but not a realistic one. After all, if such an overthrow was so easy to do, one would think that sometime during these many years, the people of Cuba, North Korea and China would have done so by now. So I think it's foolish to count on that overthrow happening here.

The idea that some people, who consider themselves good conservatives, have to so willingly put such a regime in place, simply because they're unhappy with Bush is just stupid.

[c-b 1]

Let's see. My Senators are Patty "Osama-Mama" Murray and Maria Cantwell. Should I waste my time calling them to urge them to oppose this crap?

My Congressman is el Gungrabber Supremo don Raul Grijalva de Me.Ch.A Azatlan, a co-sponsor on the Mccarthy AW ban, I have, and will continue to let him know my opinion, he does respond, even if it is a cut, and paste from Hand Gun Control Inc.

[Travis McGee]

>I>Sign this, GW, and you are a one-term president, just like your dad.

Yep. That would be correct.

[archy]

The idea that some people, who consider themselves good conservatives, have to so willingly put such a regime in place, simply because they're unhappy with Bush is just stupid

The idea that some people consider Bush to be a good conservative is just stupid, too.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The Tennessee Constitution states "No bill shall become a law which embraces more than one subject, that subject to be expressed in the title."

But if the subject isn't expressed in the title then it can be treated?

[fire_eye]

I'm worried about other "splits" resulting from this upcoming imbroglio...

I'm worried about the gun-grabbers maneuvering so as to pit gun owners against each other, with some of us arguing that "the assault weapons ban isn't so bad" if we can get the industry protection bill as a "compromise".

I'm also worried about gun owners at large ending up pitted against the firearms industry, many of the owners and operators of which are far more worried about their liability and their government contracts and their short-term financial position than about preserving our rights.

The bottom line here is that while a loss of the industry protection bill is temporary - we can introduce it next year, in a (hopefully, if we all work at it) better Congress - whereas a renewal of the AW ban will be *permanent*. We probably will have to settle for one victory at a time here. First, by allowing the waffling, compromising, unprincipled RINOs in Clowngress to vote for nothing (i.e. no protection bill AND no renewal of the AW ban), we will end up with a net gain. Then, having gotten that far, we can all join with the firearms industry to get the protection bill passed.

If we start haggling over how much we will accept, or show *any* willingness to compromise, we're likely to lose everything - because the crones and geezers on the Supreme Crotch will very likely declare the industry protection bill unconstitutional, which they will *never* do to the AW ban.

[ought-six]

"Sign this, GW, and you are a one-term president, just like your dad."

Yup. And for a variety of reasons. As for the AWB, he foolishly said he supported the ban when he campaigned in 2000, and now he has to abide by his promise to sign an extension of the existing AWB if it reaches his desk, or renege on it. He'll have to sign it if it reaches his desk. My complaint is that he never should have said he supported the damn ban in the first place. Now, he's backed into a corner. Our only chance is that the damn bill never gets out of the House, and the think will automatically sunset. Freedom can only be achieved or maintained if we get the leftists out of office; with those vile pukes still in office -- ANY office -- freedom will remain a fragile thing, at best, or a pipe dream at worst.

[ought-six]

"We need a list of the RINO's or Lib-Republicans that are at risk here. Does GOA have such a list or is there another way to identify the problem children?"

Olympia Snowe, Lincoln Chaffee, just to name two.

[ought-six]

My two senators are Peter Fitzgerald (who is retiring, so he likely doesn't give a flip one way or the other), and Dickbrain Durbin, one of the co-authors of this venal bill. What are the chances of HIM listening to me? Nil. I'm bolting from this state as soon as I retire, which, God willing, won't be that long a wait.

[ought-six]

Yup, when they say that guns should only be for recreational use it will be time for the American people to abide by the ORIGINAL and TRUE intent of the Second Amendment. Sic semper tyrannis! MOLON LABE!

[ought-six]

"Kerry will take your gun and use it to shoot you!"

Like Andrew Jackson said: Let him try and enforce it!

[RockChucker]

"Sign this, GW, and you are a one-term president, just like your dad."

The entire Republican Party will need to be severly punnished.... like another 30 years in the political wilderness, if the AW ban is signed (again).

If the AW Ban exists in any form in Nov., I will not vote for any Republican from dog catcher to president. I will vote straight Democrat and then never vote again.

I'll be done with politics, and I will teach my 4 children the same.

[ought-six]

Re: Your Post #101.

Amen.

[Blood of Tyrants]

It says, "the subject to be expressed in the title". As I said earlier, they Rats haven't tried to title a bill "Miscellaneous Stuff" and pack it full. Yet.

[ought-six]

Bush has an easy way out of his dilemna re: saying he supported the AWB when he campaigned in 2000. All he has to say is that was his position BEFORE 9-11-2001, but now things have changed.

[Rams82]

Does anyone know when the vote on this bill is??