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Dearth Of Information About Christ's Crucifixion Makes It Impossible To Render Accurate Account
WSVN ^

Posted on 02/20/2004 9:37:29 AM PST by Recovering_Democrat

JERUSALEM -- The dearth of information about Jesus' Crucifixion makes it impossible to describe the event in accurate detail, as Mel Gibson attempts to do in his new film, "The Passion of the Christ," biblical scholars and anthropologists say.

The Crucifixion is the centerpiece of the movie, set to open in U.S. theaters Feb. 25, Ash Wednesday on the Roman Catholic calendar.

People who have seen the movie say it adopts standard Christian imagery in excruciating detail: Jesus being pinioned to a Latin cross -- a T-shaped device with a short upper extension -- with one nail driven through both feet and one through each palm.

In a December e-mail sent to The Associated Press, Gibson said he did "an immense amount of reading" to supplement the Bible's relatively unadorned account of the Crucifixion in the four Gospels.

"I consulted a huge number of theologians, scholars, priests, spiritual writers," Gibson wrote. "The film is faithful to the Gospels but I had to fill in a lot of details -- like the way Jesus would have carried His cross, or whether the nails went through the palms of His hands or his wrists ... Since the experts canceled each other out, I was thrown back on my own resources to weigh the different arguments and decide for myself."

Some scholars say even the most widely recognized features of the crucifixion, such as the shape of the cross and the use of nails, are open to debate.

James F. Strange, professor of religious studies at the University of South Florida in Tampa, said 1st century historian Josephus provided only general information, probably because crucifixion was so common that details seemed superfluous.

Crucifixion was first used in the 5th century B.C., and was a widely used form of execution in Asia, Europe and Africa for the ensuing eight centuries, said Israeli anthropologist Joe Zias. Depending on technique, death could be swift or take days.

"If you suspended people by their hands and left their feet free you would kill them within an hour," Zias said. "If you suspended them in a way they couldn't exhale they'd be dead within minutes."

Zias said the question of whether Jesus was nailed to the cross or simply tied to it remains a mystery. "There is no evidence whatsoever he was nailed," he said. "The Gospels say he was crucified and leave it at that."

Zias criticized "The Passion of The Christ" for accepting the standard version of three nails being used. He said experiments on cadavers carried out by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages have shown that people hanging with nails through their hands will fall to the ground within a relatively short time, pulled by gravity.

The Gospels suggest it took Jesus three to six hours to die.

"All this is Crucifixion 101," Zias said. "People who study these things understand them. But Gibson ignored them in his film."

John Dominic Crossan, emeritus professor of religious studies at DePaul University in Chicago, agrees with Zias that little is known about Jesus' execution.

"Early Christians believed that Jesus was nailed to the cross," he said. "But there is absolutely no proof of this. The only skeleton of a crucified person ever recovered indicated that the two arms were tied to a crossbar, and two nails were used in either shinbone. There was no standard procedure in any of this. The only common feature in the different types of crucifixion is intense sadism."

The type of cross in Jesus' execution is also in question, Crossan said. First century Romans are known to have used both a T-shaped device, without an upper extension, and the Latin cross that is standard in Christian iconography.

Each of the four Gospels says an inscription mocking Jesus as the "king of the Jews" was affixed to the cross. Crossan said this would have made sense "because the whole point of crucifixion was to warn people through alluding to a specific crime."

Two of the Gospels say the inscription was mounted above Jesus. This presumably would strengthen the argument for a Latin cross, which would have provided space for writing about the condemned man's head.

However, the other two Gospels don't give a locator. "It (the written warning) could just as easily have hung around his neck," Crossan said.

Crossan is also uncertain whether the cross on which Jesus was crucified was carried to the execution grounds -- either by Simon of Cyrene, as three of the Gospels report, or by Jesus himself, according to John's account.

It is possible that the vertical part of the cross was kept at Golgotha, the place of Jesus' death, and that the condemned person carried the crossbar, Crossan said.

"The point is we simply don't know," he said, "not in general cases and not in the case of Jesus either." (AP)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bible; jesus
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To: johnb838

Flavius Josephus was a Jewish historian who lived circa 37-100 AD.

Christ was crucified around 30 or 33 AD. Josephus wasn't even born yet.
61 posted on 02/20/2004 1:23:32 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Remole
...how historically reliable is Gibson's film, especially in matters of detail?

Probably not the snake.
62 posted on 02/20/2004 1:23:55 PM PST by aruanan
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To: johnb838
I saw a documentary a while back that presented the following argument against the S of T. If you take a sheet and drape it over your face and leave a print, when the sheet is laid flat the face wouldn't look like a face at all.
63 posted on 02/20/2004 1:26:43 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: johnb838
It's Christ's Shroud. Believe me on this. I know.

Whew! Thanks. It just goes to show: You can't take it with you, even if you manage to come back for it.

64 posted on 02/20/2004 1:29:15 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: ffusco
If you take a sheet and drape it over your face and leave a print, when the sheet is laid flat the face wouldn't look like a face at all.

Oh, I'll bet if I did that, it would look like Helen Thomas.

65 posted on 02/20/2004 1:30:21 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: AmishDude
Or jabba the Hut!
66 posted on 02/20/2004 1:44:47 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that stuck in my mind -- 1 cross, 3 nails, 4 given.
67 posted on 02/20/2004 2:14:32 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: jnarcus
Most of which was written almost a thousand years after his death....

If you are referring to the Gospels, the oldest dates to about 70 AD and the other three somewhat after that. It was probably written down as a record of the oral history told by the Apostles and other wittnesses to the Crucifixion. I think 1000 years is exagerating quite a bit.

68 posted on 02/20/2004 2:23:22 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: ffusco; Chris Talk
"You are right, term HJ is used to discredit Christian theology"

Then there is also the "Jesus Seminar" Crowd that do pretty much the same. I see them on PBS. And NBC is going to use them tonight on a "special" two-hour Dateline NBC with Stoned Phillips about the "Last Days of Jesus" and ABC with Peter Jennings about the Apostle Paul. Look for the "Jesus Seminar" Biblical scholars (some with their collars) to make Jesus out to be more a political figure or some "cult figure" more than the anointed Son of God.

Also, do a Google on "The Jesus Seminar" to get an idea what this crowd is all about. The liberal media like to use them a lot.

Here are a couple goo sites:

Link to information on the Jesus Seminar

Link to Stand To Reason Org

69 posted on 02/20/2004 2:37:03 PM PST by KriegerGeist ("The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty though God for pulling down of strongholds")
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To: Geist Krieger; Quix
You are SO right, especially that awful apostate Dominic Crossan, what a louse.

For a real barfer, read his book WHO KILLED JESUS!
70 posted on 02/20/2004 2:45:43 PM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Zias criticized "The Passion of The Christ" for accepting the standard version of three nails being used. He said experiments on cadavers carried out by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages have shown that people hanging with nails through their hands will fall to the ground within a relatively short time, pulled by gravity.

Not if you nail them through the WRISTS, which was what they did during crucifixions.

71 posted on 02/20/2004 4:37:16 PM PST by MegaSilver (Coulter/Harris 2008)
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To: Chris Talk
Thanks for the alert!
72 posted on 02/20/2004 5:27:15 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Read the context of my response. It is in reagrds to Julius Ceasar not the Nazarene. One of the arguments for the historicity of Jesus is in fact that the stories of Him are so close in time to His existence. Julius on the other hand (contrary to a previous poster) is not mentioned by anyone until almost 1000 years after his rule. We do not have the actual books that Julius wrote only reference to them and quotation of them by other authors ( yes even his Gaul)...
73 posted on 02/20/2004 10:58:08 PM PST by jnarcus
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To: jnarcus
Julius was not mentioned by anyone until almost 1000 years after his death.

Pure BS. The First Citizen of Rome was celebrated for centuries after his death. Also please cite evidence that his writings were in fact not his.
74 posted on 02/21/2004 2:09:54 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
I did not say that his writings were not his only that we have them thru secondary sources. I suspect you are not much versed in history to think that Julius is mentioned so early after his death. We have stories from later years of what was said before but not the current reports which you allude to
75 posted on 02/21/2004 10:51:09 PM PST by jnarcus
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To: jnarcus
Your premise that Julius was forgotten after his death is completely false.There are 2 months in the calander named after him. His life and times are well documented by his contemporaries and successors. The period where he was forgotten by history was limited to the 500 year period called the dark ages when people also forgot to bathe, read or write.
76 posted on 02/23/2004 8:31:10 AM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
I never said he was forgotten....you have an interesting manner of putting words into my mouth...I shall now cease conversing with you
77 posted on 02/23/2004 11:02:18 PM PST by jnarcus
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