Bush Amnesty Sparks Surge in Border Crossings

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111818,00.html ^ | February 19, 2004 | Matt Hayes

[VU4G10]

On Jan. 27, the Copley News Service reported that shortly after President Bush announced

[Dane]

Dane, I always run across you on border threads and you constantly defend illegals. I mean to ask you why everytime but I always get to mad. Why do you defend illegal immigration daily on FR?

Huh? I am not defending illegal immigration, I am commenting on the hysterical hyperbole of some when Bush's plan is discussed.

As for this article, this author(an immigration lawyer by trade) reminds me of Pat Buchanan who was railing against people buying foreign cars, while Pat himself was tooling around in a $60,000 Mercedes-Benz built in Germany.

[Dane]

That is what this guy did, he carved his own niche by specializing in immigrants

So you would not rail against him if he defended an immigrant who overstayed their visa. That and other things like that is what immigration law is all about.

[johnb838]

Doesn't stop them from "comin' for the AMnesty, man." The strategy: Sneak into the US by any means necessary, try to stay out of trouble and hang on for dear life till the next time the yanquis have an amnesty, then get your green card. When they hear the word it's like "Jesus, Maria, y Jose, Yo tengo get theere now, beefore eets too late". Hence the increase in the number of illegal invaders.

When will we get someone in there to realize that the only real solution to this is to build some "illegal immigrant camps" and hold each one captured until we get this thing straightened out with the communists who run Mexico. That will put a stop to it damn quick. If the freaking leftists don't like it, declare martial law and lock THEM up. I've had it with this.

[The Toll]

That is part of my question I suppose. I just can't tell from your posts if you are trying to restore a crack in the base before the election or if you are a passionate believer in world citizenship. I see you get upset with people who are livid with Bush about his proposal and I don't understand your motives. I say this because I would be happy to be wrong but it really sounds sometimes like you employee illegals or something crazy like that.

[looscnnn]

"So you would not rail against him if he defended an immigrant who overstayed their visa."

So what your saying is that if a person murders someone, they should not be defended. To answer your question, part of me would and part would not. He is asked to do a job and he does it. Haven't the courts stated that even illegals are also covered by the constitution? That would include being defended by a lawyer. If I knew this guy, I would tell him that I didn't like the fact that he was defending illegals.

"That and other things like that is what immigration law is all about."

Yes, exactly. Maybe you need to realize that yourself, as you evidently overlooked the "other things" that are involved in immigration law.

[South40]

I agree with most of your post except for point #2. If Bush limits himself to one term John Kerry, a liberal who is left of Ted Kennedy, will be our next president.

[Dane]

I see you get upset with people who are livid with Bush about his proposal and I don't understand your motives.

I get upset with these people because they ignore the alternatives(i.e the demos).

Look there are not going to be any mass deportations, etc.etc. and Bush is trying to bring some sanity into the system, but they ignore it, blaming Bush instead of 30 years of lax border enforcement.

I get tired with people who haven't read Bush's proposal and knee jerkingly yell "Jorge Bush" etc.etc.

As for the writer of this article, another reason maybe for his displeasure of Bush's proposal, is because maybe it will cut into his business, representing immigrants.

[Cold Heat]

Calling the Bush proposal "amnesty" is what is causing the mis-interpretation.

They have to have a damn job in addition to a number of other things to qualify for the visa.

They will also be significantly fined for crossing illegally to begin with.

The BS being spread about something proposed is what will cause a increase in crossing.

Bush better get out in front of this soon.

[familyofman]

"-and who didn't see that one coming?"

Somebody in the WH - since they're the bright guys that put the policy out there - duh.

[The Toll]

Nobody believes for one minute that this plan can be enforced, that is why everyone calls it an amnesty. Look at it this way, right now it is completely illegal for them to be here and they refuse to simply enforce that black and white statute.

[The Toll]

I still don't see your motive. If you are trying to prevent the election of a democrat why do you refuse to believe that Bush himself must retract this proposal. It is a rift he created by supporting an issue that his base and practically the entire citizenry oppose. Is it that detrimental for the administrations people to admit that they misread the public and have reversed direction?
You also like to paint pictures of some sort Mexican holocaust when refering to deportation. They are here illegally why would you cry about them being put on a bus. I don't give bums my money for a reason, do you equate that to an extermination policy toward the homeless. If you eleminate the profit to them they will stop and go home.

[looscnnn]

"Calling the Bush proposal "amnesty" is what is causing the mis-interpretation."

Definition of amnesty-a warrant granting release from punishment for an offense. Sure looks like that fits the proposal.

"They have to have a damn job in addition to a number of other things to qualify for the visa."

They should not even have the damn jobs in the first place, the law is that they are not legally able to hold jobs. How about enforcing the current laws (we ask that when people cry for more gun laws, why should this be different)?

"They will also be significantly fined for crossing illegally to begin with."

So we don't punish them, we just make them pay a fee (fine?) for breaking the law in the first place and we still let them stay here.

"The BS being spread about something proposed is what will cause a increase in crossing."

Can you prove that it isn't?

"Bush better get out in front of this soon."

Agreed.

[looscnnn]

What happens if they don't come forward to get the visa? Will they be stopped from entering illegally after the proposal is enacted? What happens if they don't leave after the 5 years (or what ever the time period is)? What stops them from entering again as illegals? What is being done to secure our borders?

I have asked this over and over and no one answers.

[The_Eaglet]

I agree with most of your post except for point #2. If Bush limits himself to one term John Kerry, a liberal who is left of Ted Kennedy, will be our next president.

It doesn't have to be that way, especially if Bush stops campaigning.

If conservatives get behind a proponent of Constitutional integrity and tax relief like Michael Peroutka soon, we wouldn't have to have liberals like Kerry or any other socialist Democrat.

[Dane]

If you eleminate the profit to them they will stop and go home

I bet you could find a job cleaning office toilets tomorrow, but you probaly don't want to do that.

As soon as those jobs are filled they won't come, but they do since the number of Americans willing to do those jobs is small.

[Dante3]

bttt

[The Toll]

You already know that is a bad argument Dane. You know all of the holes in it. You already know that Americans did those jobs for years but now illegals do them for less and the companies illegally benifit from it. You have been on these threads enough to know these arguments yet you refuse to do anything but defend their "right" to be here. You refuse to respond with an intelligent defense of your position. Why do you support them being here and why do you diparage any calls for the law to be implemented? Are you a chronic law breaker or is this the only law you support ignoring?

[looscnnn]

"since the number of Americans willing to do those jobs is small."

Bull, you are just buying into the excuses for allowing this to happen.

[Dane]

You already know that is a bad argument Dane

Prove it. If my arguement was so bad, then you shouldn't be able to get a job as a janitor tomorrow, which is not the case.

[Cold Heat]

All these concerns were brought up in a recent Congressional hearing. They know!

If a new proposal is made and becomes law, it will work, or the congress will pay the price. They know and understand the feelings and the failures of the 86 act and the resulting lack of ability to enforce it. they understand that what ever they do, it must be approved and vetted by the public.

To blindly oppose any changes to the immigration mess is to accept the status quo.

I for one do not accept it and am open to a complete rewriting of the code. I refuse to get rhetorical and criticize something that has not even seen the light of day.

That is all I am going to say on the matter. I have said all that I plan to, until such time as there is some action on this. I do not expect anything until next year.