LET'S TALK ABOUT "YOUR" JOBS

Nealz Nuze ^ | Wednesday, February 18, 2004 | Neal Boortz

[Taliesan]

but the corporations belong to and are creatures of United States,

Uh, no, and yes. This post is typical of the lack of clear thinking surrounding this issue.

Corporations are legal constructs as a vehicle for ownership of property. So, the corporation is a "creature" of the US (I suppose) but the US, as a government entity, has no moral claim of ownership on a corporation. Unless it bought it.

[Jhoffa_]

Disclaimer: I have had good dealings with allot of Lawyers.. but still, I can't resist piling on.

Q: What's black and brown and looks good on an attorney?

A: A Doberman.

[raybbr]

I agree with Boortz on this account, btw. I know it's not a popular point of view, but that's the way our free market works. To say anything less is to say that someone, somewhere is "owed" a job.

The problem with super-capitalists is that they refuse to see the symbiotic relationship between the employer and employee. They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

[Redcloak]

So then you actually own your job? How interesting! What color is it?

[Merdoug]

Unfortunately (and I admit that I am guilty of this too), the average American thinks no further than what the "cheapest" item is. They have no loyality to America either, when it comes to buying American products. Quality no longer has any meaning to them and they are happy to buy "real wood" furniture, when 50 years ago, one could buy beautiful oak, cherry or mahagony furniture and really have something to be proud of.

[Mr. Jeeves]

We are seeing many high-paying jobs being exported to low-wage nations and the folks who formerly held those jobs having to take lower paying jobs while the prices remain high.

Well, that's the American's consumer's own fault. When we start refusing to overpay for junk, prices will come down. Of course, the stock market will then crash, the Fed's Ponzi scheme will be exposed, a second Great Depression will begin, and Bush will lose...so maybe we had better just keep on playing "let's pretend" for a while. That seems to be Greenspan's plan.

[Taliesan]

This comes down to the difference between free will and imposed will (force). Choosing to not be corrupted by forces of capitalism while remaining free is greatly different from communism forced by an outside entity (government).

Exactly. Which is why I oppose protectionism.

In other words, if you want to boycott Hewlett-Packard because their decisions don't reflect your values -- fine, but don't tell them if they outsource labor you'll take their money away at the point of a gun.

[Archangelsk]

Boortz hits a homer again!

Boortz wanks his putz again!

[MrB]

You'd think super-capitalists would understand that labor/skills are just another commodity to be bought and sold at market prices...

Hmmm... Perhaps they do, and those selling their labor/skills don't understand this and think that their "product" is somehow special and outside the laws of the market.

[been_lurking]

The people must pay

And thus arises the fallacy of your position. The people with jobs must pay for those without jobs. That is just plain incorrect. We don't have to, and we shouldn't. Read the previous post about those that refused a government handout and made their own way.

[A. Pole]

Russia won't become a banana republic (it could become other things) -- it's too big and it's economy is too diversified.

Seriously, climate and geography is a factor. In Russia you cannot walk barefoot in winter, you cannot live in shack, you need a warm dress and a fuel. If you do not have car/transportation you need a hardy horse. To survive, Russians had to help, share with others, rely on others help and being able to get by with little. Living in the middle of huge Eurasian mass, they needed to be shrewd, patient and courageous to repel or subdue numerous invaders. Etc, etc ...

Russia is forced by nature to be strong, resourceful, cooperative and independent.

[fightu4it]

A good start: #1. There shouldn't be anyone in this country on a work visa just because they will work 'cheaper' than one of our own citizens.

[Dead Dog]

This has kinda been a pet peeve of mine since Econ 101. The description of Capitalism with Capital, Labor, and Entrepreneur is fundamentally flawed. And flawed in a way that gives Socialism some what of a emotional foothold.

There IS NO difference between labor provider and entrepreneur. Labor providers are simply vendors (of goods and services), like the entrepreneur. In a sense, we are ALL entrepreneurs, we are all suppliers and we are all customers. There isn't Labor class and an Entrepreneur class, just different levels of the value chain. The Labor Class is a myth that begets thy myth of Socialism.

[Taliesan]

They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

No. They think the employer owns the property the employee is using and so has an inalienable moral right to think the employee is worthless. Whether that thought is correct or is stupid is another matter entirely.

I fully support your right to stupid values, and will vote against anyone who wants to impose on you a symbiotic relationship you don't want.

[Jim Noble]

. The ultimate end result is that over-paid CEOs will rake in higher salaries in the short-term until the economic bubble bursts from the devastating effects of the domino theory. At that point, American CEOs will have successfully levied America into Third World territory and we will fall from our current position as world leader and a free nation.

Good analysis up to this point, IMO.

What will happen is a deflationary depression (virtually certain).

After that, nobody knows.

After fifteen years of deflation, unemployment, and low production, we kicked the world's ass and sent our armed forces into Tokyo Bay and Berlin.

We could do the same again, OR lose our status and our freedom, but the latter does not follow from the former.

[raybbr]

... when 50 years ago, one could buy beautiful oak, cherry or mahagony furniture and really have something to be proud of.

You really are an anachronism. Don't you know that today we live in a throw-away society? Everything is, or has to be, replaceable. How else could we support our consumerist society? How dare you suggest that instead of consumerism we believe in the sovereignty of America and the superiority of the American people as a society? Don't you realize that only the very rich should be allowed to buy quality goods? The rest of us should satisfied with cheap crap, produced simply so that we can buy it so that the corporation will garner more profit.

I think I am being mostly sarcastic.

[Jhoffa_]

The problem with super-capitalists is that they refuse to see the symbiotic relationship between the employer and employee. They think the employer is more important by an order of magnitude than the employee.

IMO, they are.. by several orders of magnitude.

Business owners are a wonderful thing. They provide an opportunity for people to buy houses, feed their families, go on trips, etc, etc, etc.. PLUS, they pay taxes to finance projects, etc, on and on.. There's no need to drive this into the ground. Of course you realize this.

They are much more important in the big scheme of things.

The reason they are more important is simple: They can't get rich on their own. They have to have help and then many people prosper, to varying degrees, right along with them.

That means opportunity and I think that's a good deal for everyone involved.

When they aren't providing these opprotunities however, then they lose my sympathy. Because the only reason I should care about Bill Gates being wealthy is because he is providing jobs & helping people.

Likewise, the only reason Gates should care about me is because I might have skills that can help him become richer.

It's completely fair and it's mutually beneficial, provided both sides bring something to the table.

[lewislynn]

Many companies are enticed by different levels of government to locate or re-locate to their area by reduced fees, lower or no property taxes, the taking of private property, reduced energy costs, sewer and water fees...the list is endless and it's all done for the sake of hiring local workers, to help the local economy.

Those companies that are enjoying those perks on the backs of taxpayers and the local citizens DO owe a debt to the workers and citizens and should have all their perks rescinded with retroactive payment due for the costs incurred by the taxpayers.

What else can the government do (besides turn a blind eye to or legalize, illegals)?

EPA, EEOC, ADA, IRS, OSHA.....to name a few.

[MrB]

The government will (for now) let you refuse the handout,
but you may not refuse to pay in to fund those handouts - this eventually comes down to the point of a gov't gun.

If the 'Rats ever get back into power, look for the ability to refuse the handout to be removed.

They cannot survive without dependence, and you can see in their philosophy already that they despise independence.

[Cronos]

Russia is forced by nature to be strong, resourceful, cooperative and independent.

Sorry, I seem to have lost the point here. Yes, it needs to be strong, etc. but don't all countries need to do so?