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A great divide on immigration
OC Register ^ | 2/13/04 | Dena Bunis

Posted on 02/13/2004 8:57:31 PM PST by NormsRevenge

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:06:41 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON

(Excerpt) Read more at 2.ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; greatdivide; guestworker; immigration; reform
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To: staytrue
You can analyze yourself into a defeat in every case. Don't give up.

Illegals carry cash into 'Dinero a Mexico' Checks Cashed Stands. Large bundles of cash are immediately reported to Homeland Security.

There is no other recourse for them but small cash wires if they elect to wire.

Else they can try the USPS. The risk of sending cash through the mail would motivate nearly all of them to transport the cash back across the border by physically crossing the border.

Militarizing the borders would trap them.

A large tariff say 35-50% would help defray the costs of the burden they place on society by their presence. What burden? Education, healthcare, courts, auto accidents, interpreters, etc.
21 posted on 02/14/2004 12:35:28 AM PST by Hostage
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To: Hostage
Tariff, ha! It would be better to ban wire transfers by anyone who can't prove their valid visa status. If they want to send money to Mexico, they can walk it across the border.

As for the hundreds dying on the border as they try to cross to the great big welfare hotel that is America, there is a legal concept called attractive nuisance. f you have a structure, such as a swimming pool that a child is likely to hurt himself in, you have a duty fence it off to prevent accidents.

Since America is clearly an attractive nuisance, we have a legal duty to fence it off!
22 posted on 02/14/2004 12:59:22 AM PST by Maximum Leader (run from a knife, close on a gun)
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To: bjcintennessee
Here is my edited version of your letter. It is really very good, and my thought was that it could be shortened just by being made a little more concise, it doesn't really need to be cut much. I do think with letters of this type that shorter is better, the people who you are sending it to aren't really there to read letters and you want them to read the whole thing, so a page or a page and a quarter is probably as long as it should be.


To Whom It May Concern:

I believe President George W. Bush to be one of the greatest presidents in our history. I could fill several pages with a list of his accomplishments. His most important accomplishment has been his actions in the war on terrorism, which I have no doubt have prevented and continue to discourage further attacks against our country.

Yet there is an ignored invasion taking place in our great country. This invasion is being encouraged by our politicians including current administration.

Our country is a nation of immigrants, but unlike the immigrants of yesteryear, today's immigrants who are coming here in vast numbers are no longer encouraged to assimilate into our society. The INS is so overwhelmed that it can not keep track of the millions of legal immigrants on their dockets.

The problem is compounded by the illegal immigrants who cross our borders with impunity. Once here, they do not limit themselves to "taking the jobs that Americans won't do", which is a myth. Hundreds of thousands take advantage of taxpayer funded benefits, and yet most illegals pay no taxes (that a majority of them pay taxes is yet another myth). California's deficit can be, in large part, attributed to the vast number of illegals who are attending our schools, bankrupting our hospitals, drawing welfare, and taking advantage of programs they do not help fund.

President Bush's immigrant worker plan would be a disaster for American workers, and amounts to nothing more than an amnesty no matter what title it is given. His plan would not only encourage more illegals to flood our borders, but would continue to give citizenship status to any "anchor babies" that are born while the workers are here on a visa.

More importantly, this plan would continue to force American workers to compete with third-world country wage earners and would drastically lower our standard of living. This is an invitation for employers to cut the wages they pay to everyone from agricultural laborers to hi-tech positions.

Why make more laws when the old laws have not been enforced? A better solution would be to encourage illegals to deport themselves by targeting all employers of illegals, thus making the illegals less welcome.

Until the administration changes its position on the illegal immigrant issue, I will not support them financially. I am not a big contributor anyway, so maybe they won't mind. But I can tell you that there is a groundswell against illegal immigrants among conservatives, and if you multiply the lack of my donation by hundreds of thousands, it could put a very big dent in your budget.

I do not take this action lightly, but faxes and emails seem to have no effect in my voice being heard. I am hoping that this will help someone get the message.

Respectfully,


PS, I hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted this into a word document, and it seems to be just the right length!

FIRE WHEN YOU ARE READY!
23 posted on 02/14/2004 5:08:32 AM PST by jocon307 (The dems don't get it, the American people do.)
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To: NormsRevenge
Relentlessly round them-up and ship them back. It just takes the political will to do so.
24 posted on 02/14/2004 5:19:27 AM PST by IonInsights
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Mr. Kyl, why do I get the feeling you're just one more lousy politician selling out the American people for gain?

What is really sickening is, he is the best the Senate has to offer.

25 posted on 02/14/2004 5:41:08 AM PST by c-b 1
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Mr. Kyl, why do I get the feeling you're just one more lousy politician selling out the American people for gain?

What is really sickening is, he is the best the Senate has to offer.

26 posted on 02/14/2004 5:41:31 AM PST by c-b 1
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To: Maximum Leader
Good point about requiring proof of legal entry and status.

Now we can debate which would be easier for government and wire services to implement, tariff or proof of legal status.

Also good point about fencing the border as a fence in many cases could be preferable to military patrols.
27 posted on 02/14/2004 6:52:51 AM PST by Hostage
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To: blaze
California's population grew by 600,000 this last year

I also read where 800,000 Californians have fled California this past year, and that California intends to add 20 million people in the next 30 years, mostly from the third world countries.

This immigration meeting by the politicians is a sham. They are doing it only because the election is soon, and they need to sucker the voters.

28 posted on 02/14/2004 7:39:52 AM PST by swampfox98 (Beyond 2004 - Chaos)
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To: Cacique
As you saw (and I heard about), someone was passionate enough on this issue to vehemently interrupt a NYYRC meeting the other night. I don't remember this ever happening before on any other issue, and I go to these meetings a lot. Bush needs to pay attention.
29 posted on 02/14/2004 7:41:18 AM PST by firebrand
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To: jocon307; NewRomeTacitus
Thank you both for taking the time to edit my letter. Appreciate your input and will be using many of your suggestions.

It's still way too long, but.....

FWIW, one of the many letters I received was a certified letter from the Nat. Rep. Cong. Committee -- must have cost a fortune...our donations at work, huh!

30 posted on 02/14/2004 10:39:43 AM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: Hostage
We have 100 million percent tariff on illegal drug imports and by and large been largely unsuccessful at stopping them.

The Soviet Union had money controls unrivaled anywhere in the world, and a vigorous dollar black market flourished.

Stopping electronic 1's and 0's is going to be next to impossible. Even if you barred all electronic transmission, voice, data, tv, radio, etc., the free market will find a way.

This is often a good thing too because no matter what the socialists around the world do, they will be doomed to failure. Although in this case, it works against our govt., for the most part, I'm glad govt. around the world is constrained by free market forces.
31 posted on 02/14/2004 10:50:27 AM PST by staytrue
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To: bjcintennessee
I'd leave your letter the way it is. My belief is that once they get to the part about illegal immigration, they'll round-file it anyway.

Other than that, change the word "tract" to "track" in the following sentence:

The INS is so overwhelmed that it can not keep tract of the millions of immigrants on their dockets.

32 posted on 02/14/2004 10:55:58 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: staytrue
The idea is not to have a perfect solution to every problem. The idea is to make it a hell for those who want to break the laws.

Your argument goes like this:

"Such and such is impossible because it will never be perfect because someone will always find a way because..."

That's a sophomoric argument that leads to the conclusion that laws are never sufficient therefore abolish or ignore the laws.

You think you have an argument? Just try getting a boxcutter on a plane. You may succeed but you're taking a big risk.

You think money can't be made difficult to wire? Try making an international wire transfer sometime without showing ID. Try opening a bank account without ID.

You think money can't be monitored? Read the news that Al-Qaida is having difficulty recruiting because money is difficult to move without detection.

As for illegals, sure there may be some that get around the system but over time the risk of getting caught will result in jail time.

Right now there is no stopping an illegal from wiring $1000 to Mexico for the next batch of illegals waiting to payoff the coyote that will smuggle them over.

A tariff will piss them off and they will find other ways but each way out will become more and more difficult to the point that alot of them will give up.

Hence, many will try to walk the cash across the border and htat is risky as well. If the U.S. borders are militarized, those illegals that try to walk across the border will be trapped.
33 posted on 02/14/2004 11:30:39 AM PST by Hostage
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To: Hostage
You will have better success with monitoring the border. At least you have a physical item you are trying to stop instead of electronic 1's and 0's.

So what is to stop a wire to Switzerland, Cayman Islands, xyz country, with a middle man there that wires the money to Mexico.

You would need cooperation from every country in the world to stop this or else you need to stop all electronic money everywhere.

Your idea is stupid and unworkable. Even stopping physical items and people at the border is hard enough, but that is a lot easier than regulating electronic money transfers.
34 posted on 02/14/2004 11:56:34 AM PST by staytrue
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To: staytrue
My idea? That's funny. The system already works for a number of restricted transactions.

How the hell is an illegal daywirker supposed to get cash such as $20US bills to the Cayman Islands?

So I guess you would suggest that everyone just give up? You think people will give up? You must be a moron to think so. They're just getting started. Pardon the rest of us that choose to ignore your future drivel.
35 posted on 02/14/2004 12:09:41 PM PST by Hostage
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To: DumpsterDiver
Thanks. I caught that typo while making a few other changes. And you are right about file 13. A friend once told me that anything that was over two paragraphs (short paragraphs), he tossed.
36 posted on 02/14/2004 1:09:00 PM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: ImaTexan
ping
37 posted on 02/14/2004 1:10:11 PM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: Hostage
defense in depth....

Proof of of status AND tariffs

Fences AND military patrols
:o)
38 posted on 02/14/2004 1:25:40 PM PST by Maximum Leader (run from a knife, close on a gun)
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To: Hostage
How the hell is an illegal daywirker supposed to get cash such as $20US bills to the Cayman Islands?

You wire the money from the US to a middle man in xyz country like the caymans, or bermuda, or france who takes his cut and then wires the rest to mexico. To stop this, you would need the cooperation of every country on earth which you probably would not get since there is nothing in it for them.

In the case of al queada, almost every country sees a benefit in stopping them.

39 posted on 02/14/2004 5:21:08 PM PST by staytrue
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To: staytrue
Yeah right for some sort of experienced international narco drug dealer. But if it's Pablo with two weeks net of $1000 in his pocket then the cash is going straight to Tio Hernando in Tijuana for the gringo coyote.

Look, quit trying to act like you know what goes down. You don't. You have no experience among illegals, the ones that are strapping the social service departments in every state.

Pablo wouldn't know where Cayman is let alone know how to communicate with bankers there. And even if some slick con artist talked Pablo into wiring to Cayman, chances are the slicksters cut would be more than an imposed tariff.

And with that you're on your own with your delusions of nothing will ever be enough.
40 posted on 02/14/2004 6:11:31 PM PST by Hostage
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