[shyviking]

[quote]It sure as hell is anti-Semitism if you give millions to the Palestinians knowing full-well that they are going to use the money in their war to kill Jews.[/quote]

Allow a european to interfere with a little comment.

A question, provocative, but here it comes: Isn't it "anto-arabism" then, when countries (like USA) gives money to Israel, who is going to use the money killing palestinians?!


I must admit that suicide bombings are not a good way of waging way IMHO. The palestians should stick to military targets, or at least only go for the settlers in the occupied areas.

[FreedomPoster]

So the next time you see that Reuters report about the Israelis killing Palestinian "non-combatants", please remember this picture, from earlier this week:


A masked Hamas militant sets up a makeshift mortar launcher against Israeli forces, unseen, as Palestinian youths try to cover him from the sight of the forces during an incursion in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months.

Hint: Don't mill around people throwing ordnance at Israelis. You will likely die.

The British created a Jewish homeland. Given that the Jews were ethnically cleansed out of Europe (to Europe's everlasting shame) and the entire Muslim world in the 20th Century, a small homeland doesn't seem unreasonable. Except to Muslims and Europeans.

[piasa]

A question, provocative, but here it comes: Isn't it "anto-arabism" then, when countries (like USA) gives money to Israel, who is going to use the money killing palestinians?!

Your argument is what is called a "straw dog," it's based on a false premise. It is obviously a lie to say Israel uses the money to kill palestinians. If they did there would be no more palestinians, instead of a steadily increasing number of them. We're definitely NOT getting our money's worth.

Using your logic, I reckon Europe is trying to exterminate the Jews agian because Europe thinks it's just great to fund arafat. I suppose were are twice or thrice antisemitic as well since we give the Arabs much more money than we do Israel - and all they want to do is kill Jews and Americans in their hatred, and maybe kill a few Europeans now and then to show the Europeans who's the boss and keep that protection money flowing.)

I must admit that suicide bombings are not a good way of waging way IMHO.

Why would you say that? They have most of Europe cheering them on, or at the very least making excuses for it, and about 24% of Americans doing the same- sounds like a successful propaganda game to me. But then their sympathizers are mostly the same group of people that criticizes the death penalty for convicted criminals while thinking it's perfectly acceptable to murder their infants without so much as a fair trial, and dispose of the ill like so much trash when they become inconvenient? Why should we expect such people to understand that suicide is wrong, to understand the difference between a lawful compatant and a terrorist, or to care as much about the palestinians who were conned into blowing themselves up as they do about the their heroes, the palestinians who conned them into doing it?

The palestians should stick to military targets, or at least only go for the settlers in the occupied areas.

Here you are, trying to tell them how to fight, as if there is no other option for them. The Palestinians have a state already and it's called JORDAN. But the radicals don't want it, they want Israel destroyed. When palestinian nutjobs were in Jordan they caused so much misery and mayhem they got driven out.

Yet you suggest they continue fighting? What for? For a socialist state so they can get officially screwed? They won't have a free press nor real property rights to buy and sell as they please. They would lose more freedom if they got what they have been told they want. Fighting's the worst option for them, it's always failed them - they fought other people's battles and lost. Now they've been left out to dry by all the arab states and the ONLY people that really do give a damn about them are the very Israelis they keep trying to kill, and a few conservative Christians who are tired of seeing palestinians waste palestinians for a bloody-handed mass-murdering dishtowel-wearing Egyptian billionaire who has a face almost as repulsive as his ideology. Arafat has enough money now to BUY a Palestinian state larger than Israel. He's bought off much of Europe already, after all, so what's the holdup?

If the palestinians quit killing, they won't be dying, except of old age.

[Mamzelle]

re: The palestians should stick to military targets)))

They should, eh? Why? Seems to me that they can murder all the children they like and get away with it--so isn't that what they should do?

Such classic Euro apologia. Make a mild statement about shoulds, then decamp. Problem solved.

I suppose the Arabs should not hijack planes and fly them into skyscrapers--

[claptrap]

You are not serious are you? The stupid "Americans" give as much if not more to the damn Islamo-Nazis who populate the middle east trying to buy off the War that needs to happen!
Its obvious you are sympathizer with their cause which stated by Arafat himself is to drive the Jews into the sea that would be the only thing that would make you and the whole of Islam happy, the only catch is Israel will nuke the whole middle east into oblivion and there isnt enough money in Washington DC to buy them off!

[Mendelssohn]

"A question, provocative, but here it comes: Isn't it "anto-arabism" then, when countries (like USA) gives money to Israel, who is going to use the money killing palestinians?!"

1) America also gives billions to Arab states, primarily, in the case of Egypt and Jordan to buy arms. Many millions each year are also given to the Palestinians in aid directly from the America herself and also via UN agencies.

2) Israel is fighting a defensive war. Palestinians, on the other hand, are fighting a war to eliminate Israel. Israel's targets are exclusively military in objective; but, naturally, civilians who get caught in crossfire get killed as in every war. Palestinian terrorists, for the most part, wage their bloodthirsty campaign with the almost exclusive objective of killing as many Jews as possible.

If you cannot see the difference, then you are morally bankrupt.

3) America is providing money to Israel so that a democratic state can defend herself. It's quite apparent that Europe gives money to Palestinians because of their not-so-secret hatred of the Jewish people.


"I must admit that suicide bombings are not a good way of waging way IMHO. The palestians should stick to military targets, or at least only go for the settlers in the occupied areas."

1) You don't think suicide bombing a good way of waging war? It's not that you give a damn about the many hundreds of innocent Jews murdered, or indeed the many thousands who have been permanently maimed, it's just that you don't think it's "a good way to wage war"?

Nothing could have better demonstrated you own vicious prejudices and hatreds than those two sentences of yours.

2) The territories are not occupied, but they are disputed. To suggest they are occupied would mean they were owned by someone in the first place which they were not.

3) The Arab uprising is utterly illegitimate for all sorts of reasons, but, primarily, because the so-called Palestinians were offered virtually everything they suggested they wanted right before their campaign started by Israel, namely: all of Gaza, 97% of the West Bank, half of Jerusalem, a return of tens of thousands of "refugees" to Israel proper, billions in aid, an elevated six-lane highway and railway between Gaza and the West Bank. What is obvious from their actions and statements is that these terrorist groups are, as I stated earlier, in reality not after just a state in Gaza and the West Bank, but instead the complete destruction of Israel.

4) The intentional killing of any civilian in a conflict is one of the most serious crimes in international law. To have openly suggested that the Palestinians carry out such activities against Israeli civilians ("occupiers" or no), you have made yourself guilty of incitement to murder, itself a most serious crime.

In conclusion, in one of your many virulently anti-Jewish and anti-Israel posts (in fact, *all* of your posts are one or the other, and usually both), you stated: "It is not the fault of the palestinians that Hitler did what he did." I think now is a very opportune time to put you straight about a few things:

Aside from the fact that Jews also suffered rampant persecution in nearly all Arab countries, and over 750,000 (a much greater number than the Arab refugees from what was then Palestine) were subjected to ethnic cleansing from Arab states, Hitler did not murder the great majority of European Jews all by himself, but did so with the almost complete co-operation not just of most Germans and Austrians, but also most of occupied Europe and the "neutrals."

Take two examples:

1) Sweden: Officially neutral but in reality extremely pro-Nazi. Sweden barred virtually all Jews fleeing the Holocaust (except a few thousand as a sop to her neighbor, Denmark) from entering her territory. She further provided much of the essential materiel at a greatly reduced rare necessary to enable Germany to fight the war and complete its genocide of the Jewish people. Sweden even went so far as to allow German troops who were on their way to invade another country to travel through her territory. During the war many Swedish volunteers fought for Germany, especially in the SS. After the war she provided refuge for countless war criminals, and has pointedly refused to prosecute even one of them.

2) Norway: Liked to see itself as an occupied country, but in reality gave popular support to Quisling, Germany's puppet leader in Norway. She actively collaborated in the murder of half of Norway's Jewish citizens and immediately afterwards stole the property not just of those who had been murdered, but also those Jews who had fled. Much of this property has still not been returned by Norway, despite, incredibly, obtaining reparations from Germany for the Jewish citizens of Norway who were murdered in the gas chamber of Auschwitz. Further, not one Norwegian individual of the tens of thousands of policemen, government officials and private citizens who collaborated in the murder of Norway's Jewish citizens was ever prosecuted. Indeed, many of them were promoted. The German head of the Nazi department, which rounded up Jews was prosecuted, but released from jail after only a couple of years and ended his days quietly and happily as a proprietor of a bar in Germany.

And, as in the rest of Europe, nothing has changed in either of these countries since that time: the vicious anti-Israel policies of the governments; the hysterical and often anti-Semitic press; the rampant anti-Semitism in both nations; the beating up of Jewish children in Norwegian and Swedish schools; the banning of anyone wearing a Star of David from Norway's parliament - yes, it's all proof that absolutely nothing has changed since those two squalid little nations collaborated with the Nazis in the Holocaust.

America represents goodness and light in this campaign of terror. Europe, with few exceptions, carrying out her age-old role of support for murderers of Jews, represents evil and darkness. Let us just hope and pray that America will prevail in this battle against those forces of wickedness.