Homosexuality & Same-Sex "Marriage" (Ancient Roman Satirist Slams Gays)

New Oxford Review | January 2004 | Leland D. Peterson

[Pyro7480]

A great commentary on the ancient condemnation of homosexuality and same-sex "marriage."

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[jonno]

bump.

[ibheath]

bump for later read.

[Servant of the 9]

Nowhere does Braund identify the disease as HIV and AIDS, but I do, though I admit the evidence is not scientific and can likely never be proved at this late date.

Juvenal always bears rereading, but Professor Peterson should stick to Philology and leave epidemiology to the pros.

The rate of genetic change in any disease organism and the amount of variability of it's genetic material give a very accurate date for the breakout of the disease among humanity.
HIV is considerably less than a century old in humans.

The disease is much more likely Gonorrhea since Syphilis did not appear until the 15th Century

[syriacus]

If the word "marriage" does not mean joining a man a woman together

• Why has the traditional marriage ceremony started with the words, “Dearly beloved. We are gathered here today to join this man and this woman in holy matrimony?"
• Why have we traditionally called the man a "groom" and the woman a "bride?"

As someone else suggested on FR, Civil Unions for gays could be initiated through "Gayrriage Ceremonies."

To be consistent, the Massachusetts Court should decide a man can call himself a "woman" or "female" on his driver's license.

[TheGeezer]

The disease is much more likely Gonorrhea since Syphilis did not appear until the 15th Century

I heard somewhere that it came back with explorers from the New World. Does that have any validity?

Also, even today hepatitis is more common among homosexual men than among heterosexual men, due mainly to anal intercourse and swallowing of semen. Might that have been the disease Juvenal may have symbolically paralleled with the metaphorical malaise of homosexuality?

Regards.

[RivieraRocket]

Bada-PING!

[oprahstheantichrist]

Read later.

[Pyro7480]

BTTT

[<1/1,000,000th%]

The intellectual climate of the first-century A.D. Rome had much in common with the intellectual climate of Western Civilization today, and the common link is the ancient Greek philosopher of hedonism, Epicurus. Benjamin Wiker, in a cutting-edge essay on the Epicurean-Christian conflict that appeared in this journal over four years ago ("The Christian & the Epicurean," Jul-Aug. 1999), laid the foundations for the link between Darwin and Epicurus that he elaborated on in a book.

Is this a crveo thread?

Everyone knows that today's moral decay is the result of Episcopalians. ;)

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Interesting post bump.

[r9etb]

Juvenal's Second Satire.

[Coleus]

not merely a symptom of moral decline, but a function of a morally sick society>>

Thanks, never heard of the man. No good society ever developed from that type of lifestyle and I'm sure many great thinkers and philosophers from the beginning of time realized this.

[Cicero]

Why should'st thou (that dost not onely approve,
But in ranke itchie lust, desire, and love
The nakednesse and barenesse to enjoy,
Of thy plumpe muddy whore, or prostitute boy)
Hate vertue, though shee be naked, and bare?

John Donne, Satire I

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

Very interesting read. Often people claim that opposition to the normalization of homosexuality is merely coming from Christians and observant Jews, as though the opposition is some kind of sectarian oddity. Nothing could be further from the truth. Buddhist and Taoist teachings condemn homosexuality, even the Koran forbids it, and the Hindu scriptures are adamant in their condemnation of all variety of illicit sexual acts, and the punishment for homosexual acts traditionally was death.

If anyone wants on or off this ping list, inform me!

[tet68]

I like this part.
from Satire 3

223 "If you can tear yourself away from the games of the Circus, you can buy an excellent house at Sora, at Fabrateria or Frusino, for what you now pay in Rome to rent a dark garret for one year. And you will there have a little garden, with a shallow well from which you can easily draw water, without need of a rope, to bedew your weakly plants. There make your abode, a friend of the mattock, tending a trim garden fit to feast a hundred Pythagoreans.[26] It is something, in whatever spot, however remote, to have become the possessor of a single lizard!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[sonserae]

ping

[NYer]

A great commentary on the ancient condemnation of homosexuality and same-sex "marriage."

Here's another one!

Aside from the books in the New Testament, the Didache (Greek for "teaching") is the earliest known Christian writing. It is believed to have been written and compiled during the years AD 50-110.

---

The Didache

Part 1:  The Two Ways

The Way of Life

1. There are two Ways: a Way of Life and a Way of Death, and the difference between these two Ways is great.

The Way of Life is this: "Thou shalt love first the Lord thy Creator, and secondly thy neighbour as thyself; and thou shalt do nothing to any man that thou wouldst not wish to be done to thyself."

What you may learn from these words is to bless them that curse you, to pray for your enemies, and to fast for your persecutors.  For where is the merit in loving only those who return your love?  Even the heathens do as much as that. But if you love those who hate you, you will have nobody to be your enemy.

Beware of the carnal appetites of the body. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other one to him as well, and perfection will be yours. Should anyone compel you to go a mile, go another one with him. If someone takes away your coat, let him have your shirt too. If someone seizes anything belonging to you, do not ask for it back again (you could not get it, anyway).  Give to everyone that asks, without looking for any repayment, for it is the Father's pleasure that we should share His gracious bounty with all men. A giver who gives freely, as the commandment directs, is blessed; no fault can be found with him. But woe to the taker; for though he cannot be blamed for taking if he was in need, yet if he was not, an account will be required of him as to why he took it, and for what purpose, and he will be taken into custody and examined about this action, and he will not get out until he has paid the last penny. The old saying is in point here: "Let your alms grow damp with sweat in your hand, until you know who it is you are giving them to.

2. The second commandment in the Teaching means: Commit no murder, adultery, sodomy, fornication, or theft. Practise no magic, sorcery, abortion, or infanticide. See that you do not covet anything your neighbour possesses, and never be guilty of perjury, false witness, slander, or malice. Do not equivocate in thought or speech, for a double tongue is a deadly snare; the words you speak should not be false or empty phrases, but fraught with purposeful action. You are not to be avaricious or extortionate, and you must resist any temptation to hypocrisy, spitefulness, or superiority. You are to have no malicious designs on a neighbour. You are to cherish no feelings of hatred for anybody; some you are to reprove, some to pray for, and some again to love more than your own life.

3. Keep away from every bad man, my son, and from all his kind.  Never give way to anger, for anger leads to homicide. Likewise refrain from fanaticism, quarrelling, and hot-temperedness, for these too can breed homicide.

Beware of lust, my son, for lust leads to fornication. Likewise refrain from unclean talk and the roving eye, for these too can breed adultery.

Do not be always looking for omens, my son, for this leads to idolatry.  Likewise have nothing to do with witchcraft, astrology, or magic; do not even consent to be a witness of such practices, for they too can all breed idolatry.

Tell no lies, my son, for lying leads to theft. Likewise do not be over-anxious to be rich or to be admired, for these too can breed thievishness.

Do not be a grumbler, my son, for this leads to blasphemy.  Likewise do not be too opinionated, and do not harbour thoughts of wickedness, for these too can breed blasphemy.

Learn to be meek, for the meek are to inherit the earth. School yourself to forbearance, compassion, guilelessness, calmness, and goodness; and never forget to respect the teaching you have had.

Do not parade your own merits, or allow yourself to behave presumptuously, and do not make a point of associating with persons of eminence, but choose the companionship of honest and humble folk.

Accept as good whatever experience comes your way, in the knowledge that nothing can happen without God.

4. By day and by night, my son, remember him who speaks the word of God to you. Give him the honour you would give the Lord; for wherever the Lord's attributes are the subject of discourse, there the Lord is present. Frequent the company of the saints daily, so as to be edified by their conversation. Never encourage dissensions, but try to make peace between those who are at variance. Judge with justice, reprove without fear or favour, and never be in two minds about your decisions.

Do not be like those who reach out to take, but draw back when the time comes for giving. If the labour of your hands has been productive, your giving will be a ransom for sins. Give without hesitating and without grumbling, and you will see Whose generosity will requite you. Never turn away the needy; share all your possessions with your brother, and do not claim that anything is your own. If you and he are joint participators in things immortal, how much more so in things that are mortal?

You are not to withhold your hand from your son or daughter, but to bring them up in the fear of God from their childhood.

Never speak sharply when giving orders to male or female domestics whose trust is in the same God as yours; otherwise they may cease to fear Him who is over you both. He has not come to call men according to their rank, but those for whom He has prepared the Spirit. And you, servants, obey your masters with respectfulness and fear, as the representatives of God. Hate all impiety and everything that does not please the Lord. See that you do not neglect the commandments of the Lord, but keep them just as you received them, without any additions or subtractions of your own.

In church, make confession of your faults, and do not come to your prayers with a bad conscience.

That is the Way of Life.

The Way of Death

5. The Way of Death is this. To begin with, it is evil, and in every way fraught with damnation. In it are murders, adulteries, lusts, fornications, thefts, idolatries, witchcraft, sorceries, robberies, perjuries, hypocrisies, duplicities, deceit, pride, malice, self-will, avarice, foul language, jealousy, insolence, arrogance, and boastfulness. Here are those who persecute good men, hold truth in abhorrence, and love falsehood; who do not know of the rewards of righteousness, nor adhere to what is good, nor to just judgement; who lie awake planning wickedness rather than well-doing. Gentleness and patience are beyond their conception; they care for nothing good or useful, and are bent only on their own advantage, without pity for the poor or feeling for the distressed.  Knowledge of their Creator is not in them; they make away with their infants and deface God's image; they turn away the needy and oppress the afflicted; they aid and abet the rich but arbitrarily condemn the poor; they are utterly and altogether sunk in iniquity. Flee, my children, from all this!

Conclusion

6. Take care that nobody tempts you away from the path of this Teaching, for such a man's tuition can have nothing to do with God. If you can shoulder the Lord's yoke in its entirety, then you will be perfect; but if that is too much for you, do as much as you can.

As regards diet, keep the rules so far as you are able; only be careful to refuse anything that has been offered to an idol, for that is the worship of dead gods.

FULL TEXT