U.S. Troops Kill 10 Iraqi Gunmen

AP ^ | 02-10-04 1452EST

[river rat]

"Soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division...."

The story gave credit to the regular Army grunts...
Hell, maybe the Division has their own "wackers" incorporated....

I'm fine, and hoping you're doing well also.
Looking forward to your next visit to Kalifornia..

I just bought my first Finnish made Sako....and old '84, but unfired Sako L61R Finnbear in 30-06 --- with the old long action which is stamped AV..
Lordy lordy -- what a nice piece of hardware!
Had I known they were such tack drivers, I would have been buying them much sooner...

Semper Fi

[JasonC]

Desert, night, night vision equipment. Where they gonna escape to? They don't realize we see them. They are in wide open terrain but think they aren't bright as daylight. If our guys don't stop firing to see if they've had enough, they aren't going to live. Nothing more involved.

The reason most historical engagements aren't like this (some certainly are, just not most) is small groups feel their way barely into sight of each other. Only portions of each side's force brush before contact. They don't go too deeply into the other side's sight zone. (If they know what they are doing, they also have some elements go stationary to overwatch etc. These characters won't know that sort of thing).

In the usual case, after contact, the other portions maneuver but largely avoid areas that have already proved lethal. And elements just within sight have ways to break sight again. Neither side can long survive in sight of up and firing enemies. As men go down at the forefront on either side, the overlapping sight pictures separate again.

[Squantos]

Is dat puppy a controlled round or push feed ?? I've been busy building a one rifle for everything. My Goal is to take game in the next five years with a single caliber albeit different weights. Right now I'm considering the 06, 358 Norma Mag and the .375 H&H...........

I have loaded each of these in extreamly light to heavy loads and have taken Moose with all but never Bear as I just have an unwritten agreement with bears . I don't hunt or eat them and they return the favor !

I really like the 06 and 375 but have been reading some old gun rags from the 40's 50's and 60's that were given to me by a friend and some of the 358 Norma mag data looks really good.....from plinking to varmint to dangerous game aka one step up the food chain from my fat ass.....

I really like the looks of the Sako 75 but haven't laid hands on yet. One of my buddies is in divorce mode and sold me his new Remington 700 Sendero SF in .300 Ultra Mag. Great rig, got quite a bite for recoil but I was teethed on a .460 Weatherby Mag so I'll adapt I suppose. For that it seems it really likes a 180 Nosler Partition commercial load from remington best. I have slapped a older Var-X II 3-9X on it fro general load work ups but have my eye on a nice 6-24X as the extream range of the .300 Ultra may get some coyote time ! Here in the Panhandle that could be an asset.

Stay Safe and keep me posted on that new 06 RR !

[river rat]

Admittedly, we old farts find it difficult to adjust our thinking to the open desert environment....
Our world was limited by field of views that could be a close as 2 meters....in daylight.. less at night.

Small teams could be a close as a 10 meters to one another - and still move past each other without the other noticing....unless someone coughed, spoke or had loose gear making noises..

Since these Jihadists were on "home turf", you would have thought that they would have cached their equipment on site - and kept the area under close scrutiny before approaching to setup. Also, any fool setting up an ambush has a plan for leaving the scene afterward or if the "target" turns out to be too large to engage... To NOT have a prepared exit route and plan - covered by your own forces is suicide - as these guys proved...

But - as you correctly pointed out - it's pretty damned hard to hide on a treeless bare desert surface.....when the wackers have night eyes on your level and probably overhead also...

Semper Fi

[JasonC]

The other bit may be overestimating these particular enemies, or expecting "everyone" knows how to do things that actually, lots of people don't know how to do. The NVA had been fighting more or less continually for 20 years. The Chicoms before them had been fighting more or less continually for 15 years. They were quite good by objective standards, unusually good.

In Iraq II, these folks charged M-1 tanks with Toyota Landcruisers with guys standing up in the cab trying to fire MGs, RPGs, and mere AKs. They charged over open desert sand at night in their shirtsleeves at entire companys of LAVs with 25mm chain guns in driven turrets with nightvision. The brightest lot we've ever faced they are not...

[Travis McGee]

My guess: FLIR equipped Predator tracking these boys from home to ambush site. Based on locally provided tips.

Another ten bite the dust.

[river rat]

What you say is true... Your comments ring with the sound of one that has "been there"...

What is also true, is that an irrational, stupid or unpredictable enemy can get you killed in a real "unexpected" manner...
Cowards are also deadly enemies - because the will find a way to kill you that doesn't expose them.... and those measures are the ones that we haven't spent a lot of time training to avoid or to counter...

I wouldn't short change or get too contemptable of these Jihadists %&**%$% in the middle east.......
An underestimated enemy is a dangerous one....

I just pray our guys will stay alert, stay on the offense and kill all those that come forward desiring to die.....

This enemy we will face for DECADES, and will not be stopped until he has been bled white and his nation and family has been put to so much grief and suffering that THEY bring an end to this madness.

In my opinion....the quicker we get to that level of response to terrorism - the better..
The Jews got it right on that score --- destroying the homes of the suicide bombers....
The family that raised the idiot - SHOULD pay a price..


Semper Fi

[JasonC]

"the sound of one that has "been there"..."

Thanks, but no I haven't been there. I've followed it closely and I study military history, and was a reservist oh a decade ago. But I haven't been to Iraq. I had friends in the first one, but that's all.