Feds seize family's ranch

WND ^ | 2-10-04 | Henry Lamb

[BJungNan]

And why can't their cattle graze there...?

Meat is bad, cattle are bad. Meat must be stopped! National Insanity.

[Delphinium]

Thanks, I did.

[Delphinium]

Animal rights activists often don't realize that mother nature can be so cruel and unforgiving and that land can only support so much. Sometimes it's better to have a few die with a bullet than to have whole packs slowly starve to death over the course of a winter because there are too many for the food supplies to support. Such conditions can create more than just a nuisance, but can also increase dangers of fatal altercations with humans.

The animal rights nuts I have been dealing with thinks it okay for them to kill everything off because eventually it will come back. Thats how they feel about fire too.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1073500/posts?page=225

[B4Ranch]

Got the mail. Thanks.

[lockjaw02]

Yes, prey populations would come back long after the wolves decimate it and start dying out themselves due to starvation. It's a vicious cycle.

You should just tell these folks to they should also consider reintroducing wolves to the Appalachians, Catskills, and Berkshires to help control deer populations there with natural predators and see how they feel once their family pets and people get on the menu.

I didn't see any comments on fires and I don't know your specific position, but fires are a different matter. Smaller controlled fires help burn off underbrush and excess fuel, which helps protect against bigger fires burning out of control and ravaging larger areas of land. Controlled logging helps do the same, but the eco-nuts are irrationally against everything with a human touch. In the east we typically sell off trees off properties periodically to loggers, cut roads, and clear underbrush. To let it all go wild is inviting large scale disaster.

[Delphinium]

I was talking about out of control fires on unthinned, and unlogged land.

I agree controlled burns are important as well as logging, and thinning for a healthy forest and healthy wildlife.

Reminds me of the conversation I had with a professor, (who is paid by our resource based tax dollars) at the University of Idaho. He told me humans were murderers because we salvage the dead, burned timber that many important bugs, and beetles need to live on.

[editor-surveyor]

"Someone on FR has been arguing with me about the subject of wolves, using Ted Turners organization as her reliable source...."

We need to get organized here and publish a list of the trolls in our midst, so that we can freeze them out of the debate. This can be done by freep-mailing to those on our enviro/Property rights lists so that all know who they are, and refrain from giving them a foot in the door.

[Ranchwife]

UPDATE FROM THE WILDERNESS...............

Here's the latest from the Forest Service on the matter....

http://www2.srs.fs.fed.us/r3/gila/news/newsdetails.asp?newsid=75

What they DON'T tell you there, is that after they had to send a memo out to their employees stating that anyone caught taking Diamond Bar cattle would be subject to fine, imprisonment or both, none of their fine employees wanted to stick their necks out to do the gather.

Also, the closure they speak of, never happened to begin with.

They also don't say that the 2 contractors they had to do the gather, backed out when they found out about the fine, imprisonment or both....and they aren't going to be able to get anyone from close by to do it. We hear that they have 2 applicants from Utah and 1 from Canada, but have no idea if it's the truth, or the truth according to the Forest Service.

There are a few things in the works right now, that I'm not at liberty to share at this time, but hopefully, the next time I make it to town, there will be more update to give ya'll.

Thanks for your well-wishes!

[RGSpincich]

Another rancher who feels a sense of entitlement. Welfare ranching is being reigned in. Here is the other side of the story. Notice how the Laneys have changed their tune since 1985 and notice that they admit to only owning grazing rights and not property rights. This is not a property right issue.

http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/1999/02/97-2140.htm

[brityank]

You need to get your head out of the cowpie - Understanding "Fee Lands" and Vested Water Rights ^ -- 'Property' as related to 'Public Lands'.

[farmfriend]

Latest update on the Diamond Bar Ranch.

[RGSpincich]

Pay for what you use. Basic Business 101.

[B4Ranch]

Vested Title and Vested Water Rights apparently are phrases which you do not quite understand. I suggest you do a bit of study before making foolish statements.

[Delphinium]

I suggest you do a bit of study before making foolish statements

A good start:

Stewards of the Range

Hage v. United States:

"Although the government's position was that Hage did not have any property rights and was simply privileged to graze on the federal lands, the court ruled differently. In its final opinion on the status of the property rights, it determined that Hage owned significant property rights on the federal lands, importantly the water rights, ditch rights of way, and access to those rights."

In a later ruling, after the government argued that the court should dismiss the case because Hage no longer held a valid grazing permit and could not use his property, the court again ruled against the government. It concluded that failure to hold a grazing permit did not extinguish the value of his property rights, which may be compensable

[Ranchwife]

I can't speak for all states, but here in New Mexico, long ago, it was decided that the water rights belong to the rancher...along with that, all the range a cow can use in the time between visiting the watering places. A cow can cover a good deal of country in the day or two between the times she needs a drink of water.

Hence, if the water and grazing rights belong to the rancher, the Forest Service really has no say about what happens.

Incidentally, for your information, the Forest Service was established to do two things, and two things only. They were set up to provide a constant supply of timber for the people, and to provide a constant supply of water for the people. In our observations, they have not only overstepped their authority, but have completely abandoned the two reasons they exist in the first place. Not only have more forests been shut to logging, mainly from the pressure of the "so-called environmentalists" that don't care any more about the Spotted Owl than they do the Mexican Gray Wolf; but because the Forest Service have allowed these forests to become overgrown due to their mis-management, it has also drastically reduced the flow of our water, since it takes more water to support more trees.

And I'd like to challenge whoever it was that mentioned "welfare ranching" in this discussion, to come spend a while, doing a little "welfare ranching". I think they'll find that ranchers work very hard, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for the most part....I think they'll change their tune about "welfare ranching" drastically!

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!

[graycamel]

This is one difference between my Republicans (who won't do anything because they are a bunch of sissies) and the Libertarians (who'll never win one office because they are a bunch of fools).

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Bump for preservation of the West!

[Issaquahking]

Victory ping!!! And Thank the Lord for a good outcome at this time!


FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
"The price of freedom is
eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

REMEMBER
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
Albert Einstein

---

Favorite freedom picture
thanks to
AAABEST

It's a great shot for artist representation:
Two figures representing Americans
watching a
~sunrise or sunset~
The sun represents freedom.
Where do you stand?

[philetus]

Nothing like being reduced to the status of a slave.