[Delphinium]

I suggest you do a bit of study before making foolish statements

A good start:

Stewards of the Range

Hage v. United States:

"Although the government's position was that Hage did not have any property rights and was simply privileged to graze on the federal lands, the court ruled differently. In its final opinion on the status of the property rights, it determined that Hage owned significant property rights on the federal lands, importantly the water rights, ditch rights of way, and access to those rights."

In a later ruling, after the government argued that the court should dismiss the case because Hage no longer held a valid grazing permit and could not use his property, the court again ruled against the government. It concluded that failure to hold a grazing permit did not extinguish the value of his property rights, which may be compensable

[Ranchwife]

I can't speak for all states, but here in New Mexico, long ago, it was decided that the water rights belong to the rancher...along with that, all the range a cow can use in the time between visiting the watering places. A cow can cover a good deal of country in the day or two between the times she needs a drink of water.

Hence, if the water and grazing rights belong to the rancher, the Forest Service really has no say about what happens.

Incidentally, for your information, the Forest Service was established to do two things, and two things only. They were set up to provide a constant supply of timber for the people, and to provide a constant supply of water for the people. In our observations, they have not only overstepped their authority, but have completely abandoned the two reasons they exist in the first place. Not only have more forests been shut to logging, mainly from the pressure of the "so-called environmentalists" that don't care any more about the Spotted Owl than they do the Mexican Gray Wolf; but because the Forest Service have allowed these forests to become overgrown due to their mis-management, it has also drastically reduced the flow of our water, since it takes more water to support more trees.

And I'd like to challenge whoever it was that mentioned "welfare ranching" in this discussion, to come spend a while, doing a little "welfare ranching". I think they'll find that ranchers work very hard, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for the most part....I think they'll change their tune about "welfare ranching" drastically!