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We don't have an election cycle to play around with. The murderous Islamaniacs will not call time out while another RAT weakens the military, strengthens the UN and plays havoc with our intelligence capabilities.

I don't understand your willingness to punish Bush while claiming to rely on a GOP Congress which would have been the ones to have passed this law in the first place. He seems to be unwilling to veto anything and I don't like that but he is also the best leader who could possibly be elected today and that is the important factor. THAT is the most important consideration.

Those attacking him for various failings while claiming to be conservatives remind me of a football huddle where all the players are refusing to listen to the quarterback because they don't like the play called. It is a sure way to ruin the team and lose the game.

justshutupandtakeit said: "Those attacking him for various failings while claiming to be conservatives remind me of a football huddle where all the players are refusing to listen to the quarterback because they don't like the play called. It is a sure way to ruin the team and lose the game."

I was a Demoncrat for 32 years. Infringements of my right to keep and bear arms caused me to align with Republicans to regain my rights. Hubert Humphrey may have supported socialist political schemes but he knew exactly what the Second Amendment was about.

Most of what Bush has done are not what I would wish for my "team". The game cannot be won that way as I define "win".

If Bush signs an AWB bill, then I will cease participating in the game. I will start a different game, with different rules, and with different outcomes.

Though you may not believe it, that will make you and Bush the loser in the game you have chosen to play. Here's the deal: You stop infringing my right to keep and bear arms or you suffer the socialism which you claim to be against.

"We don't have an election cycle to play around with. "

Sure we do. One thing I have learned as a teacher of American Government, about our government, is that nothing ever operates at the spped with which you seem to suggest.

"The murderous Islamaniacs will not call time out..."

Well, there hasn't been another attack on our soil since 9-11, and that is I'm sure partly due to the attrition of their groups by our SpecOps and Intel groups working where the rubber hits the road, not up in the ethereal levels of the Pentagon and Langley Puzzle Palaces. Although, I must admit, I'm a bit startled that it hasn't already happened.

".......another RAT weakens the military, strengthens the UN and plays havoc with our intelligence capabilities. "

I doubt seriously if the next RAT will RISK any significant weakening of our forces, I worry more about unilateral withdrawal of forces from places where they are still needed. I also worry about a unilateral weakening of SpecOps troops. I don't sweat the UN, at least in the short term of the next four years. They have to have Senate ratification for anything earth shaking. The UN is still trying to recover it's sense of relevance. Our intel, due to PAST RAT havoc, already can't GET much worse. The solutions aren't really available to either a Bush or a Kerry. I suspect we will continue to rely rather heavily on HUMANINT from MOSSAD and MI6 and others, until we can rebuild and that will likely take another ten years.

IF the AWB in any form reaches Bush's desk and he falls victim to your observation that he can't seem to veto anything, then I think he will have betrayed his oath of office and MUST be removed by the people.

"......he is also the best leader who could possibly be elected today and that is the important factor. THAT is the most important consideration. "

There are capable leaders everywhere. Heck, I'd take JEB over GW anyday! But I accept that GW is the nominal head of the Republican Party at this point in time. That's fine. But he is guilty of walking away from the conservative base that is his strongest line of support in order to curry favor with folks who align themselves with ideology that I consider flatly contrary to conservatism. Just because he sacrificed HIS integrity in this manner doesn't mean I'm going to sacrifice mine. Liberalism will destroy the country, eventually. Not right away. As I said, these things take time. But eventually. One thing I'm not going to do is: justshutupandtakeit!