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Beijing Urges Bush to Act to Forestall Taiwan Vote
NY Slimes ^ | 2-6-04 | JOSEPH KAHN

Posted on 02/07/2004 9:40:04 AM PST by tallhappy

February 6, 2004

Beijing Urges Bush to Act to Forestall Taiwan Vote

By JOSEPH KAHN

BEIJING, Feb. 5 — China is putting pressure on the Bush administration to intervene more decisively to prevent Taiwan from holding a referendum on relations with the mainland, calling the planned vote a "dangerous provocation" that could lead to a confrontation.

Beijing sent a mission to Washington this week to urge the United States to take more concrete steps to rein in Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, a Chinese Foreign Ministry official said. Mr. Chen has repeatedly played down statements from President Bush and the State Department expressing opposition to the referendum plan.

The Chinese effort reflects growing concern in Beijing that the Taiwan problem is becoming more acute, even though Mr. Chen recently softened the language of his proposed referendum and offered to resume talks with China if he wins re-election on March 20. Some officials and analysts are alarmed that Mr. Chen has pushed ahead with the plebiscite despite American opposition.

A Foreign Ministry official, who declined to be identified by name, said a request for more active intervention was conveyed to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who visited Beijing late last week. The official said a further appeal to the United States to take firmer steps to derail the referendum was relayed by Chen Yunlin, the head of the Taiwan Affairs Office of China's State Council, or cabinet, who met State Department officials in Washington this week.

Asking the United States to play an intermediary role with Taiwan breaks a longstanding taboo in Beijing, where officials have often criticized Washington for meddling in relations between China and Taiwan. As such, it shows how limited China's options are for dealing with the matter, which some analysts here fear could lead to a military clash if its is not resolved soon.

"The United States has taken the right attitude toward the problem and realizes the motives of Chen Shui-bian," said Xu Bodong, an influential expert on Taiwan affairs in Beijing. "But American opposition has not been very firm and I'm afraid that this is leading to a serious misunderstanding in Taiwan."

The request puts the Bush administration in an awkward position. When Mr. Bush expressed his concern about Mr. Chen's referendum plan in December, during a visit to Washington by the Chinese prime minister, Wen Jiabao, he was criticized by neoconservatives and some pro-Taiwan members of Congress who maintain that the United States should support Taiwan against mainland China.

But the administration is determined to prevent a flare-up over Taiwan at a time when it is focused on Iraq. The administration is also depending heavily on China to help resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis. Just this week, China announced that it had arranged a new round of multilateral talks involving North Korea to be held in Beijing beginning later this month.

It is unclear whether the Bush administration is willing to take tougher steps against Mr. Chen if he continues to pursue the referendum plan, as appears likely. The pro-Taiwan lobby in Washington firmly opposes Chinese calls to curtail arms sales to Taiwan and limit contacts between American and Taiwanese officials. Mr. Bush has greatly increased arms sales and allowed a broader range of official contacts.

At issue is Mr. Chen's plan to place questions on the March presidential ballot addressing Taiwan's ties with China. Under the current wording, voters would decide whether to increase military spending if China does not remove missiles aimed at Taiwan. A second question would ask whether voters favor opening negotiations with Beijing.

While the questions seem relatively innocuous, China has argued that Mr. Chen is trying to set a precedent of putting issues of sovereignty to a popular vote, potentially paving the way for a formal vote on Taiwanese independence. China claims sovereignty over Taiwan and has vowed to wage war to prevent independence.

The Bush administration, reiterating longstanding policy, says it opposes unilateral steps to disrupt the status quo, and has backed China's view that a referendum of the sort Mr. Chen has proposed would upset it.

Administration officials have stuck to that position despite repeated appeals from Taiwan, which has said that the referendum is not intended to alter the status quo. Mr. Armitage reiterated the administration's concerns during his visit to China last week, even after Mr. Chen revised the wording.

Chinese military officials this week described the revised referendum as a major challenge to Chinese sovereignty, signaling that the Beijing leadership could respond harshly if Taiwan refuses to back down.

A prominent article in this week's issue of Outlook, a weekly current affairs magazine, carried essays by two senior scholars with military rank, both of whom made clear that the military would treat Taiwan's insistence on holding the referendum as a step toward independence.

"Chen Shui-bian's persistence in pursuing this provocative referendum shows that he is absolutely dead set in going down the road of independence," Col. Luo Yuan of the Chinese Academy of Military Sciences wrote. "He must not make a big miscalculation and mistake restraint for weakness."

Policy statements on sensitive topics like Taiwan cannot be published in major newspapers or magazines in China without high-level approval.

Yet Beijing is also eager to avoid steps that could end up strengthening Mr. Chen's bid for re-election and hurting his opponent, the Nationalist Party leader, Lien Chan. Mr. Lien says he favors improving relations with mainland China and has accused Mr. Chen of jeopardizing Taiwan's security by challenging Beijing to an unnecessary duel.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: appeasement; china; dictatorship; freedom; suppression; taiwan; vote
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To: tallhappy
That's OK,

I often forget you are absent virtually any charity.
21 posted on 02/07/2004 6:33:25 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
I've certainly always been a "bird of rare plumage."

I'm not sure what your excuse is.
22 posted on 02/07/2004 6:34:19 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
This boils down to a question of how genuine Chinese nationalism is. My own opinion is that despite the Chicoms' obvious distortions of their history, it would be foolishly naive of us to assume Chinese nationalism is all bluster and no substance. We can only find out by calling their bluff - and history has shown the PRC doesn't have a good record of behaving rationally toward its neighbors. Yes, the Chicoms are pretty good at killing unarmed civilians, but we're talking about a leadership that proudly remembers China's history of bloody intervention in Korea, daring confrontation with US and USSR, punitive strikes against India & Vietnam. They believe they've successfully challenged major powers before so why not again? When a Korea vet like Zhang Wannian starts blabbering about how they'll kick the crap out of Taiwan, should we laugh at them?
23 posted on 02/07/2004 7:33:05 PM PST by Filibuster_60
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To: tallhappy
Wellll, not ANY . . .

that was hyperbole . . .

but I have yet to observe excessive charity in MY direction!
24 posted on 02/07/2004 8:01:01 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Quix
No charity? See 19.

But, you do make those sort of comments.

25 posted on 02/07/2004 9:05:17 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy
Ahhhh,

I guess I'm thickheaded . . .

Was the charity part

KOOKY AND ALWAYS WERE

or

COMMON GROUND?

Must have been the "common ground" part.

Yes, I confess. Very, very charitable

of you/for you.
26 posted on 02/07/2004 9:18:04 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
And,

Kooky, like beauty

CAN

be significantly in the eye of the beholder.

27 posted on 02/07/2004 9:21:20 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
BTW,

kooky IS more fun!
28 posted on 02/07/2004 9:34:56 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
hmm..Bush should decline to get involved with the Communist Chinese demands while siting that he needs has no time since he personally overseeing the reconstruction of our EP-3 Plane that was dismantled on Hainan Island.
29 posted on 02/08/2004 12:48:19 AM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
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To: tallhappy
"China said they'd attack if the taiwanese people chose wrong in 2000. Well, no attack yet."

Well, now we have the Euro-weenies trying their damnedest to give China all the weapons she needs to overtake Taiwan....And that is exactly why China wants the weapons ban lifted.
30 posted on 02/08/2004 12:57:24 AM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
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To: tallhappy
"They aren't going to. If they do, the regime is doomed"

I would be more inclined to say that they are damned if they don't. They have talked themselves into a corner and if they allow the situation with Taiwan to perpetuate further out of control, it could backfire in areas like Xinjiang and Tibet as well. Not to mention other disputed possessions.
31 posted on 02/08/2004 12:59:03 AM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
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To: Quix
"any Taiwan referendum indicating otherwise is an unacceptable loss of face to the senior Beijing leaders."

That is the $25,000 statement. Like I said, the goons in Beijing have talked themselves into a corner that they currently have no way of escaping from.
32 posted on 02/08/2004 1:03:46 AM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
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To: tallhappy; Quix; maui_hawaii
All joking/sarcasm aside, I would highly recommend "The making of Chinese foreign and Security Policy" edited by David M. Lampton.

It was assigned during my Chinese foreign policy class and it gives a good perspective of where the Chinese are coming from and where they are going.

March will be interesting with regards to the Taiwanese referendum that is scheduled to take place. I will be visiting my wife and doing research in China during this time. Hopefully nothing too exciting takes place.
33 posted on 02/08/2004 1:26:01 AM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
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To: Dr. Marten
Thanks for the ref.

PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP US POSTED.

Where, may I ask (for public or private answer), are you planning to travel in China?

Safety to you and your party in all such travels.
34 posted on 02/08/2004 4:27:12 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Dr. Marten; tallhappy
I agree with you. And, they don't handle such contexts, contingencies well--even when of their own creation.

It is uttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttter

anathama

for a Chinese leader to even smell like he's walked within a thousand kilometers of "weak."

Even a lot of the masses of citizens would rather see a Tienanmen than see a leader as weak. It's a deeply held cultural gestalt.

I guess tallhappy has never been that exposed to such things long enough to notice them, much less feel them.
35 posted on 02/08/2004 4:29:34 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Filibuster_60
This boils down to a question of how genuine Chinese nationalism is

I know what you mean.

Another way to put it is are they that bloodthristy and do they hate taiwan so much they'd do this.

There are no real practial implications of Taiwan being openly recognized. People in China certainly don't want to attack Taiwan.

I do think Zhang Wannian is laughable. He may want to attack Taiwan but more likley he is busy with his little empire of corruption and keeping the goods on his corrupt chicom comrades so they can mutually extort each other to stay in power.

But, the argument that China will attack makes it much more important for Taiwan to be independent than if they won't attack, so where are we then.

36 posted on 02/08/2004 8:25:56 AM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Dr. Marten
foreign and Security Policy" edited by David M. Lampton. It was assigned during my Chinese foreign policy class

You are definitely at a major disadvantage having taken classes on this subject. It is amazing you have such a clear view on this topic given this background. How could you have come out of that milieu not being completely Foggy headed? Bottom line:

Deng died seven years ago. CCK 16 years ago. Taiwan has invested billions and created millions of jobs in China.

No attack. Attack means ChiComs lose and lose power. It would be the end of their rule and regime and they know it.

The "immortals" are all dead. No one else has the authority or power to start this sort of attack. There will be a bigger civil war in China if they begin such a war.

They hate Chen and Lee because they have a long term vision and are moving step by step to free themselves of this silly and stupid situation in a way that has to be recognized and accepted by the free world. This is they are desperately looking for Bush to help. They know they can only use the US to take Taiwan. Clinton helped them and now Bush is helping them even more when the time now is to move in the exact opposite manner which is what Bush had done for a time.

What I see about lampton and his ilk is they are uncreativer narrow minded not too breight folk are always one or two steps behind.

And they caused the problem in the first place and have no idea how to end it and simply seek to always prolong it as they know nothing better.

Taiwan is planning to achieve or make clear their full sovereignty and independence before the 2008 Olympics. We can either help them or help the ChiComs. Those are the choices.

We can wait wait wait until then maybe China will have weapons from Europse to use (heck, by then maybe we'll be selling them weapons).

Or do it now in the next few years to deal with it and make it right.

Or say outright we want the PRC to take over Taiwan.

No more nonsense and stupid games. China is now essentially a colony of the US, Japan and Taiwan and others and we used their cheap labor force to manufacture all our goods.

The ChiCom regime is not needed in any way.

Anyhow, great to see you are being deprogrammed from your unfportunate indoctrination in to the foggy foggy world of foreign policy experts.

37 posted on 02/08/2004 8:51:12 AM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Quix
Even a lot of the masses of citizens would rather see a Tienanmen than see a leader as weak

Once again your argument is that Chinese people are bloodthirsty psychopaths.

38 posted on 02/08/2004 8:52:31 AM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy
NO.

YOU SEEM TO HAVE A VERY schizy view of dicotomies.

If you don't see them, then both ends are extremes unworthy of sane discourse.

If you see them but the other person doesn't see them in the same way--the the other person is an idiot and your extremes are balanced and sane. Fascinating psychology, that.

No, you don't HAVE to shove the Chinese into one of those extremes or the other. Even you don't HAVE to see things in such super stark extreme black/white terms.

Their history has left them with a very visceral fear, hatred of weak rulers. For good cause. Weak rulers have resulted in MORE CHAOS AND SUFFERING than strong rulers throughout 7,000 years of culture.

And, given their survival skill of Asian stoicism, they can treat a strong harsh ruler with stoic aplomb and make the best of it--realizing that a weak ruler might well have resulted in much greater suffering.

But, you can keep your simplistic coloring book analysis of China if you wish. You won't be the first or last to make that error.

It's so incredibly complex. I still feel Mao didn't really know what was going on--especially after the first year or 3 of power.
39 posted on 02/08/2004 9:35:36 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: tallhappy
The average Chinese has no hatred for the average Taiwanese. But the typical Chicom elite has plenty of hatred bordering on bloodlust toward the pro-independence leadership of Taiwan. The CCP and PLA are the only parties that really matter in determining whether China goes to war. The post-Tiananmen generation of ultra-nationalist college grads would most likely support such a war.

You seriously underestimate the nature of Chinese nationalism. A force like that needn't be rational to be powerful. Why do you think Mao Zedong remains so popular such that his legacy is a useful populist tool for the new leaders?
40 posted on 02/08/2004 9:44:27 AM PST by Filibuster_60
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