Ex-atheist describes near-death experience

Standard-Times ^ | 1/31/2004 | LINDA ANDRADE RODRIGUES

[EastIdaho]

In Ashton Idaho one winter night several years ago, A fire broke out from a propane leak, the fire started in the kitchen, all of the family got out except a 6 year old boy who's bedroom was beneath the kitchen where the fire broke out. The family had gathered outside the house and was in a panic knowing that the boy was still inside. Then the boy came walking around from the back side of the house. When the family calmed down they asked the boy how he got out, he said a white blob came in his bedroom and showed him the way out. The first question that comes to mind is "why was this boy saved and others who died in fires were not saved?" I don't know, but the fact is he was. Who are we to question gods will?

[plain talk]

Quix, I just saw a post of yours that your mother is suffering from Alzheimers. I'm so sorry to hear that.

My Dad died of Alzheimer's and now my Mother has it. My father was an agnostic. I once asked him if he ever thought about whether there could be life on other planets and he said "No". He never had a chance for salvation the way he was wired. Well, he sort of had a chance because my mother was really devout but it never rubbed off on him.

I was the last person to see my father alive and on his death bed I futively tried to "save him" by preaching to him. Actually he seemed to react to my preaching with some strange utterances as if he didn't like it or there was some demon inside. It probably was just that he didn't like me shouting in his face! Even if he could hear me the Alzheimer's had destroyed his brain to where he did not know what any words meant.

In any event, I then sat down and started to read the Bible to myself for the first time in probably 20 years as I had been a very weak Christian if one at all at that point with more doubts than faith. Five minutes later he stopped breathing and died. The experience of hearing myself preach aloud to my agnostic father actually saved me.

[Quix]

I certainly so urge people as I have many times on this thread.

I also, when counseling folks who've lost someone due to suicide or some other dreadful reason and have some doubt about the eternal salvation of the lost one . . . will personally check with The Lord if it's OK if I proclaim them forgiven based on that Scripture:

John 20
22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

I don't pretend to know exhaustively what God means with that Scripture. But I fully intend to give God every opportunity to apply that Scripture as He sees fit in the lives of anyone He prompts me in my spirit to forgive based on that Scripture. He seems to give plenty of evidence in Scripture that He makes many of His choices and actions CONTINGENT on what we do and particularly what we say--and very particularly when we pray Scripture. So, I'm doing my part to apply that Scripture in prayer regarding questionable situations or situations needing an abundance of God's Grace.

Whatever God does in response, will automatically be perfect . . . in terms of his justice AND HIS GRACE AND LOVE.

In terms of the point of death . . . unless we've had such an emphatic EXPERIENCE WITH GOD ALMIGHTY OURSELVES such that OUR DOUBTS are forceably and fiercely removed for all time, we are also looking through a glass darkly. However, I have found that, Given Christ's death and Blood on The Cross . . . and Given God's Nature, it's much more of a safe bet to bet on His Grace than on his wrath.

[stanz]

You may have the unglorified distinction eventually of carrying your biases, constructions on reality, skepticism, cynnicism to a very dark and uncomfortable place.

Hint, smugness, pride, intellectualism etc. are not in evidence there.

Extreme brokenness, despair and the like are the raging norm.

Just because I'm not willing to accept your mumbo jumbo doesn't qualify me as smug, despairing or inhabiting dark places. Rather, I tend to think that responses such as yours are the "raging" type. I merely stated my opinion.
Get a life.

[Quix]

Then your interpretations seem very strange, to me.

I hardly call ABUNDANT LIFE, ETERNAL LIFE dead.

I hardly call the Scriptures about Christ conquering the grave and death lying.

[stanz]

What does eternity have to do with this thread?
I don't buy this story and that's what I said.

[Quix]

I think your research into the topic is lacking.

There are a variety of SIMILAR experiences

AND

There are a variety of TYPES OF NDE'S!

MANY OF THEM ARE CLEARLY USED BY GOD ALMIGHTY AND HIS PRECIOUS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO DRAW PEOPLE UNTO THEMSELVES, TURN THEM 180 DEGREES AROUND AND SEND THEM BACK INTO THIS TIME/SPACE DIMENSION TO DRAW MORE INDIVIDUALS TO THE SAVING KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS THE CHRIST.

I'm NOT ABOUT to throw rocks on that.

I do encourage people to be very discerning about NDE's because, as in many spiritual areas, there is, evidently, a counterfeit phenomena that some people evidently experience.

[Quix]

Wonderful!

THANKS.

[mdmathis6]

I've spoken with Real Patriot before, His views are consistent with Armstrong, who founded the World Wide Church of God, well known for its heretical views. After Armstrong died, the church itself reformed much of its ideas and is more in line with most evangelical protestant churches...

By the way, Good evening Quix!

[Quix]

THANKS FOR YOUR KIND CONCERN AND WORDS.

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH . . .

1) We read the Scripture that says THE GATES OF HELL will not prevail against the church. All my life, I've had the image, so to speak, of the gates of hell CHASING THE CHURCH.

But GATES ARE ****DEFENSIVE****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing implications of that!!!! We shall see.

2) Lord Jesus, I don't know what this prayer at this point may avail. I can argue against it from several directions. Nevertheless, I know you. And I know you have incredible Love and more options than the rest of us might guess. I know that when you were 3 days buried, that you actually went into hell and TOOK CAPTIVES, CAPTIVE.

Lord, I believe that plain talk's father may have been saved as his spirit listened without being fought by a stubborn brain now more or less silenced with Alzheimer's. I pray so, Lord.

Regardless, perhaps plain talk with agree with me in prayer--and if not, I proclaim based on the Scripture in John that plain talks' father is forgiven all his sins by virtue of the shed Blood of Jesus and perhaps your allowing him to apply it to his life even at this late moment. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

Bless you for your kind words.

Bless you in your walk with Our Lord.

My mother's always been a bullheaded, cantankerous woman who terrorized most pastors. Mercifully, she had a heart of gold. She was just enormously misguided in a list of ways and ignorant of same but too proud and stubborn to ever be able to even see it regardless of the evidence. Sadly, Alzheimer's has blunted her more admirable traits while allowing her obnoxious ones to reign in full force. Am prayerfully doing what I can to try and condition her toward going along with whatever Dad and I say regardless. No small task, that. Prayers would be welcome. Thankfully, she's been a strong believer most of her life.

[Quix]

Accepting or not my humble words wouldn't, in and of itself, amount to a lot.

Your tone, word choices etc. describe well enough your attitude, it seems to me.

I have been wrong more than a few times. Perhaps others disagree with me and agree with you. It would be interesting to know.

[Quix]

Thanks.

LIKEWISE.

I love this topic. Have for decades. Have read tons about it. Though am a bit out of date to SOME degree, not totally.

God has soooooo many fun things up His sleeve--it's crazy to say what He would and wouldn't do.

Especially for folks looking through a glass darkly to insist that they as a given individual have God's boundaries all scoped out on a topic. Sigh.

IMHO.

[realpatriot71]

I hardly call ABUNDANT LIFE, ETERNAL LIFE dead.

I'm not talking about "eternal life" but an "immortal soul," souls in the prresensce of God can live eternally, but souls in and of themselves are not eternal, only one is sternal the Holy Creater. The concept of an "immortal soul" is apostate and began with the father of lies himself - "yee surely will not die" was the first lie told to Eve. All apostate religions believe in an imortal soul, save one, Biblical Christianity (a peculiar people for this time).

I hardly call the Scriptures about Christ conquering the grave and death lying.

The Grave could not hold the Redeemer, for the Jesus was perfect and He was God, the grave cannot hold that which is eternal and perfect. The soul of man is created from clay and the breath of life - God's quickening - both are necessary conditions for a "living soul". When you die, the breath of life returns to the Creator, and the rest of the living soul becomes nothing more than "clay" again. The Bible is clear about this and the Bible does not lie.

[realpatriot71]

There are a variety of TYPES OF NDE'S!

The God we serve is not the father of confusion. He has communicated His will to this world through His word, the Bible. The "spirits" are always to be tested based upon this word, and if they do not so testify according to the scriptures, then there is nothng from God in them.

The dead are dead.

[Quix]

I think you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel

There's nothing in Scripture about the soul being even fractionally composed of clay nor even about such being necessary.

The Scripture even talks about God knowing us before we were formed in our mother's wombs.

Seems like a very strange tangential twisting of Basic Scripture, to me.

My eternal soul will live eternally in the Presence of God by virtue of Christ's Blood and my acceptance of it as covering for my flaws, sins . . . PRAISE GOD!

HE IS THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF MY FAITH. I don't have to be concerned with the mechanics of Eternal Life.

[Quix]

THE NDE'S I PAY ATTENTION TO ARE EXTREMELY CONGRUENT WITH SCRIPTURE.

That's quite enough for me.

Of course, I test the spirits.

[U S Army EOD]

Remember not to take a bath for a week.

[Gunslingr3]

"We know there is no supernatural, because it does not show up on instruments. Interesting to find the refutation of an argument right in the middle of the argument ...

Interesting because you made it up?

Science endevours to understand and explain, by virtue of logic and confirmable, repeatable experimentation. But every scientists realizes 100 successful experiments doesn't prove him right, and one unsuccessful can prove him wrong.

I'll take an effort like that over "We know there is a supernatural, because it was written about in a book and told to us by a guy who wanted 10% of what we earned."

[MHGinTN]

My my, you certainly went out of your way to make a spectacle of yourself! Hooray for you ... the meaning of the word 'supernatural' as used colloquially is the key to my comment you quoted. I won't bore you with any further comments ... your intellect is obviously far superior to any here at FR, in your opinion.

[Axenolith]

Maybe with a spring that can detect the gravatational anomalies created by denser areas of the crust, otherwise, it's a change in the mass on the spring that changes the spring length...