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To: justshutupandtakeit
views on democracy:

J) Man is "perfectable," and therefore capable of governing himself.


H) Distrusted people's ability to govern. Believed in elite rule far more than the Jeffersonians.
46 tpaine


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You are usually on top of things ... that post ... you must be sleepy or have the flu. JustshutupandTakeIt has done a superb job.
90 bvw


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Hamilton's view of man was the standard Christian view that he was a fallen creature.

However, he spent most of his life attempting to educate his fellow citizenry and was perhaps the most widely read man in America over the period of 1775-1804 through his incessant writing for newspapers. No man devoted more of his time, wealth or energy to establishing and protecting the Republic than Alexander Hamilton.
101 -justi-






I don't 'get it' guys.. Why do you detest Jeff & set an elitist like Alex on a pedestal? They were both flawed men, as are we all.. --- But one upheld the principles of a constitution of liberty, while the other didn't much care for those basics.

Sorry, I think the Jeffersonian republic we began to lose around 1900 was a much better system than the one we find ourselves in now.
105 posted on 02/05/2004 8:14:43 AM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: tpaine
Jefferson was far more of an elitist than Hamilton ever was. Hamilton had to earn his bread by the sweat of his brow not that of others. Hamilton sacrificed a fortune serving the Republic he helped create.

His concern for the elites was only that they be attached to the government as support and to reduce chances of class warfare. In no way was he for an aristocracy other than one of merit which was Jefferson's preference as well.

Hamilton has not been on a pedestal rather he has been slandered and lied about by the Jeffersonian claque for two hundred plus yrs. That is why I defend him.
123 posted on 02/05/2004 9:32:32 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: tpaine; Scenic Sounds
tpaine: I meant that your table -- that first one, was too summarified. And in that over-summarification represented your own forcing of a polarity upon the two men.

It was Jefferson who threw together a Navy and first projected our Naval power throughout the world and and Jefferson who somehow found a grant in the Constitution to buy the Louisania Territory.

This acts -- especially the details of the first Barbary War show Jefferson to be an immensely practical executive, well-grounded and adeptly footed at the same time. And despite Scenic Sounds later additions of Hamilton's own comments, I am hard pressed to imagine that a man who clearly understood limited and enumerated powers -- that is Hamilton, would be so unlimited even by what he meant when he said "plenary powers" for the use of tax revenues.

Do not be giving "general welfare" two distinct meanings at the same time. Hamilton gave it one: the use of Federal revenues and grants must directly benefit the whole and not particular individuals, corporations, groups, or geographic locations. (To damn "scholar" Robert Byrd, that is.)

A sitting Judge at trial has plenary powers -- they have there limits, and can not be blue-sky unlimited.


140 posted on 02/05/2004 12:16:42 PM PST by bvw
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