Who Is Banning Books Now?

Hal Lindsey Oracle ^ | 2/2/04 | Hal Lindsey

[narby]

What is this if it is not blatant censorship?

Nobody censored anything. People can still buy the book, but if the Park decides not to sell one particular whackjob book, I don't think it's a bad decision.

No one has a "right" to have shelf space given over for their book, even in a government run park.

It's pretty funny though, these guys making claims the canyon was carved in a short time. Hiking down the canyon is the best place for almost anyone to get a glaringly obvious clue that the Earth is really really old.

Unfortunatly, only a very few visitors to the Canyon will ever hike down to the bottom to see for themselves how the billion+ year old rock differs from the rock higher up. And will certianly never find any of the fossles there, buried under an incredible amount of rock.

In case anyone's interested, the best theory is that the Colorado plateau where the Canyon is, rose up, allowing the river to carve down into it as a Canyon, rather than generating a meander basin over No. Arizona.

But, it's just the current theory. The scientists haven't nailed it down solid yet. Unlike the garbage spread by the creationists (who are CERTIAN of their science, and will not stand questioning), there is much in the scientific literature that isn't settled yet.

But Evolution, for all practical purposes, is settled. Until someone can come up with some real evidence to counteract the litteral mountains of evidence supporting Evolution.

By the way. How come creationists write off the fact that Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs, but they refuse write off the fact that Genesis doesn't completly describe Evolution either?

[Monti Cello]

Not sure about the Amazon or the Nile, but the canyon of the Colorado is largely a result of plateau uplift and soft, easily eroded sedimentary rock.

[narby]

bible which plainly states there was a spontaneous creation of several different species at differnt times, and that everything was created mature, already old.

Really? So the Bible didn't leave out anything? It told the whole story?

If so, then why did these guys have to write the creationist theory on the Grand Canyon? I would have thought that would have been in the Bible already.

[old-ager]

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

[narby]

With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So God's "days" have no relation to human "days". You're saying the Earth is around 4 billion years old then?

[MissAmericanPie]

It is already in the bible that the earth was created mature, what did I just say? If science wants to dedicate itself to the details of how, why, etc, as they should, why not start with what is already known. Their system of dating is bogus and it has been from the get go.

[Flightdeck]

I am religious and a scientist. I believe in intelligent design, but have no problem with evolution since there is no contradiction between the two. There is contradiction between evolution and what the bible says, but that is irrelevant since a literal interpretation of the bible makes about as much sense as Allah reserving 40 virgins for suicide bombers. My office is just yards from the most famous (infamous in this forum) evolutionist alive today, and I could fill volumes with the criticisms I have heard about his opinions. I have yet to encounter, however, any person with a history of respectable academic accomplishments disagree with Dr. Weinberg's general thesis. The reason scientists are so dismissive of opposition to the "theory" of evolution, is because it is as much of a fact as gravity, even though that is just a "theory" as well. Bluntly put, anybody who doesn't believe in evolution shouldn't teach your kid's science class.

[old-ager]

>You're saying the Earth is around 4 billion years old then?

Go ahead and explain to us how and why that's the point ot this text! I am all ears.

[Daphne]

"Their system of dating is bogus and it has been from the get go"

I second that.

I stopped believing most science stuff like that awhile ago. Too many of their theories contradict themselves.

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[greenwolf]

The idea of claiming that the Colorado River carved or created the Grand Canyon is idiotic. Whatever DID create the canyon compares to the Colorado river about the way Godzilla compares to a piss ant.

[narby]

It is already in the bible that the earth was created mature, what did I just say? If science wants to dedicate itself to the details of how, why, etc, as they should, why not start with what is already known.

I really don't remember that verse in Genesis where it says that. There's only a couple of chapters in Genesis that deals with creation, so there's not too much detail there.

So if God created the Earth "mature", he did this to fool us? Was it some kind of faith test?

Their system of dating is bogus and it has been from the get go.

Which system? I've heard of quite a few different methods, and generally they back each other up rather well.

For myself, I don't have my faith challenged by either Evolution or an "Old Earth". It's one of those funny things about religious folk, that they can't agree on which denomination is "right", or whether it's "saved by grace", or is it "works", or whatever.

Religious people can't agree on a great many important religious dogmas. It doesn't surprise me that some (and probably not even a majority) of religious people insist on rejecting science too.

[PatrickHenry]

Saw other articles on this episode of book banning but not as in depth.

Two earlier threads, from 2 and 3 weeks ago:
Grand Canyon Made By Noah's Flood, Book Says (Geologists Skewer Park For Selling Creationism)
The Grand Canyon: Created by Noah's Flood?.

[narby]

I stopped believing most science stuff like that awhile ago. Too many of their theories contradict themselves.

Really? Which ones?

Gravity? Orbital Mechanics? E=Mc2? (ever heard of the atom bomb?)

There are a bunch of cranks out there that foist themselves off as "scientists". Most notably, the green idiots and the creationists are two-of-a-kind.

But there are some very hard sciences out there that deserve the respect most people have in them. Evolution is one of those.

[MissAmericanPie]

I believe in evolution myself, I believe that species will adapt and change to fit their environment, but I believe it happens at a much faster pace, in a few generations, than most scientists would agree with.

Look at how much taller we are than people a hundred years or less ago. No I don't write off evolution I just don't make it a matter of politics or religion.

[narby]

The idea of claiming that the Colorado River carved or created the Grand Canyon is idiotic. Whatever DID create the canyon compares to the Colorado river about the way Godzilla compares to a piss ant.

That does have to be the funniest one yet....

[balrog666]

The stupid and the ignorant will always be with us. Unless they get banned!

[MissAmericanPie]

I guess you missed the part that said the tree was created with the fruit already on the branch. Everything was created with it's seed in it. That is being created mature.
How do you take that to mean that God is trying to fool you when He lays it out there right up front?

When a measurement hinges on, assumes, an immature begining it's already flawed because in the begining everything was already mature.

[VadeRetro]

The idea of claiming that the Colorado River carved or created the Grand Canyon is idiotic.

Who could ever suspect such an illogical thing?

Funny how so often there's some kind of a river running through those steep-walled features, though. The Potomac flows through something called "The Narrows" near where I live. I could almost see how someone might think the river cut that gorge. Then there's the gorge of the Colorado, the gorge of the Brahmaputra, the narrows of the Yellowstone, the black canyon of the Gunnison ...

[RightWingNilla]

I stopped believing most science stuff like that awhile ago. Too many of their theories contradict themselves.

Yet you have no problem using the fruits of science, such as computers, the internet, microwave ovens, tvs, vaccines etc.