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The Shadow of Ryazan: Who Was Behind the Strange Russian Apartment Bombings in September 1999?
National Review Online ^ | April 30th, 2002 | David Satter

Posted on 02/01/2004 3:55:15 PM PST by wideminded

For the last two and a half years, a specter has haunted the government of Vladimir Putin. This is the possibility of a serious examination of the strange apartment-house bombings that took place in September, 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk and cost 300 lives.

The bombings terrorized Russia. The Russian authorities immediately accused Chechen rebels of responsibility for the attacks and this galvanized public opinion in support of a second war in Chechnya. The war, in turn, made Putin, the former head of the Federal Security Bureau (FSB), an overnight hero and the leading candidate for the Russian presidency.

Almost from the start, however, there were doubts about the timing of the bombings that could not have been better calculated to rescue the political fortunes of the ruling, Yeltsin-era oligarchy. Suspicions only deepened when a fifth bomb was discovered in the basement of a building in Ryazan and those responsible for placing it turned out to be agents of the Federal Security Bureau (FSB).

Until recently, attempts to call attention to some of the paradoxes surrounding the bombings, one of the most pivotal events in post-communist Russian history, proceeded sporadically and were easily mastered by the information apparatus of the state.

On March 5, however, Boris Berezovsky, a self-exiled oligarch and former key Kremlin adviser, held a press conference in London in which he accused the FSB of carrying out the bombings with Putin's complicity in order to justify a second Chechen war. He presented as evidence the testimony of Nikita Chekulin, a former acting director of the Russian Explosives Conversion Center, a scientific research institute under the Ministry of Education, who was recruited by the FSB as a secret agent. Chekulin stated, and confirmed with documents, that in 1999-2000, a large quantity of hexogen, the explosive that is believed to have been used in the apartment bombings, was purchased by the institute from various military units and then, under the guise of gunpowder or dynamite, shipped all over the country to unknown destinations. Berezovsky also presented a documentary film that was largely based on a previous television program about the Ryazan incident that was shown on NTV and the reporting in Novaya Gazeta.

In fact, the press conference did not offer much that was new. Nonetheless, it was significant because it renewed discussion of an issue that had never really gone away. At the same time as the press conference was being held, a pamphlet novel by Alexander Prokhanov, a Russian nationalist leader, entitled "Mr. Hexogen," was enjoying a wide circulation in Russia. The novel, based on information from sources in the intelligence agencies, describes a conspiracy to unleash the Second Chechen War and use it to elect a successor who would protect the interests of the corrupt Yeltsin "family."

In explaining his support for the American-led antiterrorist coalition after Sept. 11, 2001, Putin said that Russia had also been a victim of terrorism. This experience, however, looks rather different if the bombings in September, 1999 were carried out by the Russian government as part of an effort to preserve the power and wealth of a criminal oligarchy.

The view that the bombings were the work of the Russian government is based on three types of evidence: the logic of the political situation at the time of the attacks; what is known about the bombings in Moscow, Buinaksk and Volgodonsk; and the implications of the so called "training exercise" in Ryazan. Unfortunately, in all three cases, the weight of the evidence supports the view that the bombings were not the work of Chechen terrorists but rather the action of the Russian government undertaken to justify the launching of the Second Chechen War.

In August, 1999, on the eve of the bombings, it appeared that the Yeltsin "family" and the rest of the corrupt oligarchy that ruled Russia was facing an unavoidable day of reckoning. As the economic situation in Russia got steadily worse, Yeltsin's approval rating dropped to two percent and an uneasy awareness spread among the persons closely connected to the Yeltsin regime that their positions, their wealth, and possibly their freedom and even their lives were in jeopardy.

In August, 1998, Russia experienced a devastating financial crisis and, in its wake, Yeltsin was forced to compromise with the Duma and accept as prime minister, Yevgeny Primakov, the foreign minister and former head of the Foreign Intelligence Service. Primakov authorized a series of investigations that affected the members of the "family" themselves.

One investigation involved Berezovsky, who, in January, 1999, was suspected of appropriating money belonging to the airline, Aeroflot. More important for the "family," however, was the investigation into possible kickbacks to Pavel Borodin, the head of the property administration in the presidential administration, from the Swiss firm, Mabetex, in connection with construction and repair work on the Kremlin. On January 22, 1999, the Mabetex office was raided in Lugano and records were discovered that showed payments of $600,000 on the credit cards of Yeltsin's daughters, Tatyana Dyachenko and Yelena Okulova.

The threat to some of the country's most powerful figures prompted a response. Yuri Skuratov, the prosecutor general who was leading the investigations, was removed after a video of him engaged in "sex acts" with two prostitutes in a sauna linked to a Moscow criminal organization was shown on primetime television. The cases involving Berezovsky and Mabetex, however, were not forgotten.

Dissatisfaction with Yeltsin was spreading and, in May, 1999, Yeltsin fired Primakov and his government and installed as acting premier, the interior minister, Sergei Stepashin. A move to impeach Yeltsin for, among other things, illegally suppressing the Supreme Soviet in 1993 and launching the war in Chechnya in 1994, was narrowly defeated with the help of the distribution of bribes to wavering deputies. But the Fatherland-All Russia movement that was organized by Yuri Luzhkov, the mayor of Moscow, was gaining strength. On August 23, Luzhkov promised that if Primakov, the most popular politician in the country, was to run for president, he would support him.

The prospect of Primakov as president was frightening for the Yeltsin entourage because he had already demonstrated his readiness to pursue corruption cases and, as Skuratov was later to state, it was possible to bring criminal cases against every one of the oligarchs of the Yeltsin era.

By the summer of 1999, there was reported to be an atmosphere of near panic in the Kremlin and there were reports that the Yeltsin "family" was planning provocations in Moscow, including acts of terror, in order to discredit Luzhkov. One such report, by Alexander Zhilin, which appeared July 22 in Moskovskaya Pravda said that there was a plan to destabilize the atmosphere in Moscow by organizing terrorist acts, kidnappings and a war between criminal clans. The plan, known among insiders as "Storm in Moscow," was never implemented, possibly because an even more effective plan took its place.

On August 5, a Muslim force led by Shamil Basayev, a Chechen guerilla leader, entered western Dagestan from Chechnya, ostensibly to start an anti-Russian uprising. On August 9, Stepashin was dismissed and Putin became prime minister. On August 22, the force withdrew back into Chechnya without heavy losses, amid suspicion that the incursion had been a provocation. At the end of August, Russian aircraft bombed Wahhabi villages in Dagestan in seeming retaliation for the incursion and this was followed, days later, by the explosions that obliterated the apartment buildings in Moscow, Buinaksk and Volgodonsk.

The bombings stunned Russia but, in their wake, the stage was set for the rescue of the Yeltsin-era oligarchy. Popular anger over corruption was redirected against the Chechens. Putin, whose popularity rating had been two percent, launched a war against Chechnya and, in the process, became Russia's savior. In April, 2000, he was easily elected president and, in that capacity, he granted immunity from prosecution to Yeltsin and his family, put an end to all talk of a redivision of property, and preserved the Yeltsin-era oligarchy virtually intact.

Besides the logic of the political situation in August, 1999 that suggested that only by provoking a war could the Yeltsin leadership retain their property and their power, the role of the Russian government in the bombings is suggested by the character of the explosions themselves.

The four bombings all had the same "handwriting" as attested to by the nature of the destruction, the way the buildings' concrete panels collapsed and the volume of the blast. In each case, the explosive was said to be hexogen and all four bombs were set to go off at night to inflict maximum casualties.

To do what they were accused of having done without expert assistance, however, Chechen terrorists would have needed to be able to organize nine explosions (the four that took place and the five that the Russian authorities claimed to have prevented) in widely separated cities in the space of two weeks. They also would have needed the ability to penetrate top-secret Russian-military factories or military units to obtain the hexogen.

Finally, Chechen terrorists would have needed technical virtuosity. In the case of the Moscow apartment buildings, the bombs were placed to destroy the weakest, critical structural elements so each of the buildings would collapse "like a house of cards." Such careful calculations are the mark of skilled specialists and the only places where such specialists were trained in Russia were the spetsnaz forces, military intelligence (GRU), and the FSB.

Another troubling aspect of the apartment bombings was the timing. The bombings were explained as a response to the Russian bombing in August, 1999 of Wahhabi villages in Dagestan. A careful study of the apartment bombings, however, showed that it would have taken from four to four and half months to organize them. In constructing a model of the events, all stages of the conspiracy were considered: developing a plan for the targets, visiting the targets, making corrections, determining the optimum mix of explosives, ordering their preparation, making final calculations, renting space in the targeted buildings, and transporting the explosives to the targets.

Assuming that these calculations were even approximately correct, planning for the apartment bombings had to begin in the spring. They therefore could not have been retaliation by Chechen terrorists for the Russian attack in Dagestan, which occurred only days before the bombings took place. They might, however, have been part of a plan that included the Chechen invasion of Dagestan, the Russian bombing of the Wahhabi villages and the apartment bombings. But such a plan could only have been implemented by elements of the regime in cooperation with the FSB.

As both the Chechen war and the presidential campaign progressed, some observers noted that events were unfolding in a manner that matched the conditions described by Harold Laswell, a University of Chicago political scientist, as being optimal for successful propaganda. In his book, Propaganda Technique in the World War, Laswell said a propagandist's success is limited by the tension level of the subject population. "The propagandist who deals with a community when its tension level is high, finds that a reservoir of explosive energy can be touched off by the same small match which would normally ignite [only] a bonfire." Some persons who knew of the popularity of American political science literature with the FSB became convinced that events were being played out according to a scenario written by Lasswell.

The strongest indication that elements of the Russian government were responsible for the bombings, however, was the history of the supposed training exercise in Ryazan.

In that incident, the FSB was forced to admit that they had put a bomb in the basement of a civilian apartment building because they were caught in the act.

The incident began on the night of September 22, six days after the bombing of Volgodonsk, when police answering a call reporting suspicious activity discovered a bomb in the basement of the building at 14/16 Novosyelov Street. Experts arriving at the scene found that the bomb tested positive for hexogen.

Within minutes, not only the building but also the surrounding neighborhood was evacuated. In all, nearly 30,000 persons spent the night on the street. The airport and railroad stations were surrounded by police and roadblocks were set up on all of the roads leading out of the city.

The origin of the bomb was determined, however, in a totally unexpected way. On the evening of the 23rd, a call to Moscow was made from a public telephone bureau for intercity calls. The operator who connected the call caught a fragment of conversation in which a caller said there was no way to get out of town undetected. The voice at the other end of the line said, "Split up and each of you make your own way out." The operator reported the call to the police and they traced the number. To their astonishment, it belonged to the FSB.

A short time later, with the help of tips from the population, the police arrested two terrorists. They produced identification from the FSB and were released on orders from Moscow.

On Sept. 24, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, announced that the bomb in the basement at 14/16 Novosyelov had been a dummy and the incident had been a "test." He congratulated the residents of Ryazan on their vigilance. This explanation stupefied the residents of Ryazan who had assumed that the bomb was real. The FSB said that the bomb was a dummy and that the explosive materials in the sacks attached to the detonator was sugar. It said the gas analyzer that detected hexogen had malfunctioned.

Several months after the incident, however, Pavel Voloshin, a reporter for Novaya Gazeta, interviewed Yuri Tkachenko, the sapper who defused the "dummy" bomb. He insisted that it was real. Tkachenko said that the detonator, including a timer, power source and shotgun shell, was a genuine military detonator and obviously prepared by a professional. At the same time, the gas analyzer that tested the vapors coming from the sacks unmistakably indicated the presence of hexogen.

Voloshin asked Tkachenko if the gas analyzer could have given a false result. Tkachenko said that this was out of the question. The gas analyzers were of world-class quality. Each cost $20,000 and was maintained by a specialist who worked according to a strict schedule, checking the analyzer after each use and making frequent prophylactic checks. These were necessary because the device contains a source of constant radiation. In the end, Tkachenko pointed out, meticulous care in the handling of the gas analyzer was a necessity because the bomb squad's experts' lives depended on the reliability of their equipment.

Voloshin also interviewed the police officers who answered the original call and discovered the bomb. They also insisted that the incident was not an exercise and that it was obvious from its appearance that the substance in the bags was not sugar.

Voloshin's articles in Novaya Gazeta had a major impact. Doubt became so widespread that the FSB agreed to participate in a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the building at 14/16 Novosyelov. The purpose of the program was to demonstrate the FSB's openness but the strategy backfired. During the program, which was aired on NTV, March 23, FSB spokesmen could not explain why the "exercise" was carried out without measures to protect the health of the residents, why the gas analyzer detected hexogen or why bomb squad experts mistook a dummy bomb for a real one. When the program ended, the residents were more convinced than ever that they had been unwitting pawns in a FSB plot and only through a miracle escaped with their lives.

In fact, the building at 14/16 Novosyelov Street was an odd choice for a test of vigilance because there was an all night grocery store in the building and residents could easily have assumed that someone unloading sacks of sugar was doing so for the store. As the target of a terrorist attack, however, the building was very well suited, especially if the goal was to claim the maximum number of lives. Like the building on Kashirskoye Highway in Moscow, 14/16 Novosyelov Street was a brick building of standard construction. In the event of an explosion, it would have offered little resistance and there would have been little chance for anyone to survive. At the same time, since the building was on an elevation, in the event of an explosion, it would have hit the adjacent building with the force of an avalanche and, because the weak, sandy soil in the area offered little support to either building, probably would have toppled it. In this way, the tragedy in Ryazan would have eclipsed all the others.

In the face of evidence of FSB involvement in the bombing of the Russian apartment buildings, the government has refused to respond. It reacted to Berezovsky's allegations by accusing him of funding the terrorist activities of Chechen rebels.

The most serious evidence that the Russian government bombed its own people, however, is presented by the Ryazan incident and, in that case, at least, the Russian authorities are perfectly equipped to refute the allegations that have been made against them. They need only to produce the persons who carried out the Ryazan training exercise, the records of the exercise and the dummy bomb itself. The FSB, however, has refused to do this on grounds of secrecy and evidence relating to the Ryazan incident has been sealed for 75 years.

The government has also prevented any inquiry by the parliament. In March, 2000, a group of deputies proposed to send to the general prosecutor a request for answers to questions regarding the incident in Ryazan. The Duma voted 197 in favor and 137 against. However, 226 votes, an absolute majority, was needed for passage and this was not achieved because the pro-Kremlin Unity party voted unanimously against. In February, another attempt was made to open a parliamentary inquiry into the Ryazan incident. In this case, 161 deputies voted in favor and only seven against but the remainder of the 464 members of the Duma abstained. As a result, the attempt failed.

In fact, the greatest support for the government's denial of any involvement in the bombings is fear of the implications if it turns out that the regime was behind the bombings. Even the residents of the building at 14/16 Novsyelov were reluctant to draw conclusions about possible government involvement although they unanimously rejected the notion that the incident had been a test. The most they would say was that someone tried to blow them up without offering an opinion as to whom.

The question of "who," however, is very significant. If, as the available evidence indicates, the bombings were carried out by the FSB, it means the present government of Russia is illegitimate. It also means that a tradition has been established in Russia that can only lead to the country's degeneration.

Russia has experienced three years of economic growth after more than a decade of steady decline and Putin has enacted some needed reforms. None of these changes, however, affect the real challenges facing Russia that are crime, ideological disorientation, and demographic collapse. These problems are symptoms of a deep spiritual malaise and they can only be resolved by establishing the authority of moral values in the country that, in practical terms, would be expressed in the rule of law.

Under these circumstances, it is important to Russia's future that the bombings not be ignored. Failing to react to evidence of a crime by the Russian government means implicitly condoning it and leaving unchallenged a precedent that will serve as a standing temptation for the future, demonstrating to all subsequent Russian leaders how elections can be "won" and putting paid to the effort to apply law consistently and establish the authority of moral values in Russia.

Any effort to examine seriously the true authorship of the apartment-house bombings would, by right and of necessity, be nonviolent. It is possible that if the regime were seriously threatened, it would react with repression. A hypothetical repressive response from the government, however, would only actualize what had always been a potential and the Russian public would have, at least, confirmed that it rejected the government's crime and was not complicit in it. The worst outcome would be for the Russian public to become gradually convinced that the present government was established as the result of an act of terror but to treat that as a normal phenomenon because, in that way, they would not only be accepting criminal domination but also cutting off the moral roots of their own subsequent regeneration.

— David Satter is a senior fellow of the Hudson Institute and a visiting scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). This is based on his book, Darkness at Dawn: The Rise of the Russian Criminal State, which is upcoming from the Yale University Press.

 


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: bombings; caucasus; conspiracy; fsb; fsbchekisti; kgb; putin; russia; ryazan; volgodonsk
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This article is old, but after a search I didn't see that it had been posted previously and the information it contains is still quite relevant, important, and fascinating. Mr. Satter appeared yesterday on C-SPAN2 discussing his book on the same subject. The title is taken from the pdf version at this link.
1 posted on 02/01/2004 3:55:18 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded
It wouldn't be the first time an intelligence agency had sacrificed a number of citizens to either cover up their own misdeeds or as a distraction from something else going on. Neither in the old Soviet Union, the New Russia, or here.

Note that the FSB has been attempting to discredit the information and silence the reports, giving them the credence they probably deserve.

-archy-/-

2 posted on 02/01/2004 4:22:02 PM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: wideminded
The Russian authorities immediately accused Chechen rebels of responsibility for the attacks and this galvanized public opinion in support of a second war in Chechnya. ===


Accually second chehn war started as answer to chechn attack on Dagestan. The Moscow terrorist explosions happened later AFTEr start of second chechen war.
3 posted on 02/01/2004 4:39:01 PM PST by RusIvan
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To: archy
Note that the FSB has been attempting to discredit the information and silence the reports, giving them the credence they probably deserve.==

FSB found the perpetrators and prevented 2 more explosions. Some of them fled to Georgia and was extradited from there.


4 posted on 02/01/2004 4:41:27 PM PST by RusIvan
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To: wideminded
How do you say tinfoil in Ruskie?
5 posted on 02/01/2004 4:49:23 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: RussianConservative
ping!
6 posted on 02/01/2004 4:55:35 PM PST by BrooklynGOP (www.logicandsanity.com)
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To: RusIvan
FSB found the perpetrators and prevented 2 more explosions. Some of them fled to Georgia and was extradited from there.

I have no sympathy for the Chechnyan dhukhai scum, but not much either for FSB agents who find it easier to fake bombing incidents with real victims, then frame easy-to-catch *suspects* who can be convinced to confess, leaving the real terrorists to continue their work...so that the budgets for the organs of state security can be increased, greater powers granted, etc, usw.

As was so in the Tsarist days, as remains so today. And as is so in the USA as well.

MOSCOW, Dec. 30 (UPI) -- Copies of a book linking Russia's FSB security service to apartment blasts in 1999 have been seized by the Russian police, the book's sellers say.

Over 4,000 issues of "FSB Blows Up Russia" were confiscated in western Russia on Sunday, Alexander Podrabinek of the Prima news agency told the BBC.

Podrabinek said "the books were seized as anti-government propaganda."

The FSB denies any involvement in the blasts that killed nearly 300 people and led to the second war in Chechnya. Instead, it has blamed Chechen rebels for organizing the September 1999 bombings -- two in Moscow and two in Volgodonsk.

The copies of the book were seized en route from the western city of Pskov to Moscow after being stopped by road police, Podrabinek said.

The book is co-authored by former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko, who fled to Britain in 2000 and was given political asylum there. Litvinenko has accused his superiors of carrying out the apartment bombings and also of ordering him to kill Russia's exiled tycoon Boris Berezovsky.


7 posted on 02/01/2004 5:21:28 PM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: wideminded
The Russian authorities immediately accused Chechen rebels of responsibility for the attacks and this galvanized public opinion in support of a second war in Chechnya.

Only if ignore fact that Chechins kidnap 1,500 peoples in 3 years of semi independence, to include general leading diplomatic mission to stave off war (he was killed), then Baseyov (Minister of Defense for Mashkedov) invade Daghistan and masscre several village (all filmed by own hand and own men)....other then that small set facts...this is no different then US blowing up Pentagon and Jews blowing up World Trade towers.

8 posted on 02/01/2004 5:23:33 PM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: archy; A. Pole
So absolutely true and FBI trying desperately to cover up own blowing up of World Trade Towers and Pentagon or was it Massod? After all, it written in book (better evidence then this simple article on Russia) in France...after all more words of accusation and harder binding is more proof and reality in tin hat industry.
9 posted on 02/01/2004 5:25:16 PM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RusIvan
Stop Rusivan, Islams are friends of America and bossom buddies, those are evil bastard slime Russians who blow up US troops in Iraq and suicide Israelies....why only way to make world safe is if all us Russians kill our self.
10 posted on 02/01/2004 5:26:37 PM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: archy
Guess Berezovsky, who give Chechins $6 million and wrote THAT book (sure little fact easy to overlook) and who love Soros (so supporting Bere is supporting Soros is supporting US socialists) show little proof and testifying of US FBI explosives experts that all material and signature of explosion same as in Africa on US embassies, that is just paranoia.
11 posted on 02/01/2004 5:29:20 PM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: razorback-bert; RusIvan; RussianConservative
How do you say tinfoil in Ruskie?

This story does not seem to me to fall in the tinfoil category. One difference between this story and the crazy conspiracy theories swirling around the WTC attack is that Satter, who is a professor at Johns Hopkins, and a lot of other seemingly sensible people believe that the story is at least plausible.

The following facts are undisputed:

1. A large bomb was found in an apartment building in Ryazan.

2. The construction of the bomb matched in various respects with the bombs that destroyed other apartment blocks in the same period.

3. The perpetrators who were caught had ties to the FSB.

4. The government said that the bomb was merely a test of vigilance, which is not a highly plausible explanation.

5. No proper investigation has been conducted.

There is no question that the Chechens have committed many terrorist acts. That would not excuse the killing of innocent Russian citizens by their own government. If there was no basis to the idea that the FSB was involved in the apartment bombings, the Putin government would have no objection to an open investigation (aside from the fact that this is not a Russian tradition).

Accually second chehn war started as answer to chechn attack on Dagestan.

Satter suggested in his talk on C-SPAN2 and in the article that the Dagestan attack was somehow also arranged by the FSB as part of a general plan. He goes over why it would have been difficult for the Chechens to respond so quickly to the Russian counter-attack.

Another thing Satter discussed on C-SPAN is that from an American point of view it is almost beyond the realm of belief that a government would do such a thing to its own citizens to achieve political aims. But apparently the trend of Russian history does not rule such things out.

My own view is that it is possible that the Chechens organized the whole thing but there is certainly more than enough evidence of FSB involvement to justify further investigation.

12 posted on 02/01/2004 6:41:15 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded
This story does not seem to me to fall in the tinfoil category. One difference between this story and the crazy conspiracy theories

The main difference is that libelous conspiracy theories are to believed if they apply to Russians or Serbs. It must be in human nature that we need some designated guys in black hats.

13 posted on 02/01/2004 6:54:01 PM PST by A. Pole (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain , the hand of free market must be invisible)
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To: A. Pole
The main difference is that libelous conspiracy theories are to believed if they apply to Russians or Serbs.

Some people have a persecution complex. Conspiracy theories should only be believed if there is well-founded evidence to support them. So far no one has come up with any plausible evidence that all Jewish workers in the WTC were told to take the day off, or that explosives were pre-placed to destroy the WTC or that 1/5 of the Pentagon was destroyed by a bomb placed by the US government rather than a plane controlled by terrorists. In contrast even the Russian government does not dispute that the Ryazan bomb was placed by people connected to the FSB. Why don't you address the particular facts of this case instead of writing it off as anti-Russian propaganda? BTW, my brother-in-law is married to a Russian and as far as I can tell the members of the Russian community are some of the finest citizens in my town.

14 posted on 02/01/2004 7:22:46 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded
Conspiracy theories should only be believed if there is well-founded evidence to support them.
[...]
In contrast even the Russian government does not dispute that the Ryazan bomb was placed by people connected to the FSB.

1. "Russian government does not dispute"
2. "Ryazan bomb" in another city but similar
3. possibly "placed by people connected to the FSB"
4. all described in the book of honest BAB.

Hey, so many steps to connect. You know, in six steps you can connect everyone with everyone. Mother Theresa with Bin Laden probably in less. And Serbs are guilty of greatest genocide in history.

15 posted on 02/01/2004 7:32:44 PM PST by A. Pole (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain , the hand of free market must be invisible)
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To: A. Pole
4. all described in the book of honest BAB.

Prof. Satter is not Boris Beresovsky and his book is not based on this previously book.

Hey, so many steps to connect. You know, in six steps you can connect everyone with everyone.

Your hand-waving "steps" argument indicates that you can't really explain the facts in this case in a way that would support your case. All you have to do to make a winning argument is to fill in the blanks in this sentence: "It is entirely plausible and reasonable that the Russian government would place a huge bomb in the basement of an apartment as an 'exercise in vigilance' because _______ and this bomb was not really dangerous to the occupants of the apartment because ___________."

And Serbs are guilty of greatest genocide in history.

Not in history, but Srebrenica is not merely a conspiracy theory. BTW the topic of this thread has nothing to do with Serbs.

Some people are not worth arguing or even conversing with on FR because they are not interested in determining the truth.

16 posted on 02/01/2004 8:01:56 PM PST by wideminded
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To: RussianConservative
Stop Rusivan, Islams are friends of America and bossom buddies, those are evil bastard slime Russians who blow up US troops in Iraq and suicide Israelies...==

Conservative I know it is sarcasm. But is it bit overkill?
I never heard nothing like this from any respectful or important person.
But someone here suspicious of Russian goverment. But many people here is suspicious of America's goverment too. So what?

Bytheway I suspicious of russian goverment myself not in extent of cause that I would think that FSB blew up houses in Moscow of cause. Thois one is insane and stupid.

But if you ask me was Putin uses his power against his political opponents. I'd say yes.
But if you ask me are his political opponents honest people whom I respect? I'd answer NO. They are crooks.
I never want them in power of Russia. Less then Putin.

It is all russian politics. None of them deserve to be in power on american standards. Putin's political opponets and some his political friends are same crooks.

But if you ask me what is Putin? I'd say to compare with those who was before him he is BEST person in power in Russia for hundred of years. Next guy who I respect was Stolipin who was prime minister of czar Nicolas II was killed by jewish terrorist in 1907.
17 posted on 02/01/2004 9:25:08 PM PST by RusIvan
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To: wideminded
1. A large bomb was found in an apartment building in Ryazan.==

It wasn't bomb at all. It was immitating device the sacks of sugar. In Russia they use those thing to exercise. FSB just try to recreate situation in Moscow in order to see will it be spotted by people and first responders.

3. The perpetrators who were caught had ties to the FSB.==

The perpetrators of exercise was naturally FSB officers:).

4. The government said that the bomb was merely a test of vigilance, which is not a highly plausible explanation. ==

It is exact explanation.
Recently american forces excercised same way in Washington DC when placed mocking device under Pen in center of town. No one of numerous police who patroled around didn't pay attention so. I red about it.

If there was no basis to the idea that the FSB was involved in the apartment bombings, the Putin government would have no objection to an open investigation (aside from the fact that this is not a Russian tradition). ===

What to investigate? The exercise?

Satter suggested in his talk on C-SPAN2 and in the article that the Dagestan attack was somehow also arranged by the FSB as part of a general plan. ==

Of cause of cause the "evil" FSB is omnipotent. They are "easy" to blow up buildings and to "create" wars on thier own people.

But apparently the trend of Russian history does not rule such things out.===

What trend of RUSSIAN history? If you mean atrocities of communists? Then it was SOVIET power not russian. For you maybe it is same for me - not.

There are nothing in russian history and even soviet when goverment created such kind of provocation against people. SOme goverment of the past was brutal or stupid or misnanaged country but I cann't remember no historical precendent when goverment of Russia bombed own people to justify the war.

And chechen war was supported anyway by 90% after chechen attack on Dagestan.
18 posted on 02/01/2004 9:47:00 PM PST by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
Until recently I also assumed that the apartment bombings were the work of Chechens because it just seemed impossible to believe that such terrible acts could be perpetrated by elements of the Russian government, especially by an FSB led by Vladimir Putin, who seemed like a relatively decent guy. I had not yet heard of the Ryazan incident. But Satter raises some valid questions in his article which are at least worth investigating. You have ignored or glossed over these points and are presenting the Russian government position and their version of the facts, which you have accepted entirely without question or are acting as if you do I won't spend any more time arguing about the the details of this incident (including the failure of the Russian government to satisfactorily explain it to the citizens of Ryazan) since it's all covered in the article.

Even in America we have learned not to completely trust the word of the government. They're probably telling some lies about Mad Cow testing. There seems to be some hesitancy to release all the information on events leading to September 11th. But if the Ryazan incident had happened in the US, there would eventually be intensive investigations and at least one complete detailed report covering such elementary points as the intended purpose of the test, why the particular building and city were chosen, who was involved in planning for it, and what was learned from it.

But apparently the trend of Russian history does not rule such things out.

What trend of RUSSIAN history? If you mean atrocities of communists? Then it was SOVIET power not russian. For you maybe it is same for me - not.

About 15 years ago I read a book that was actually written by Richard Nixon, although I suspect he had some help with research. He made the argument that the differences in the characteristics of Russian and American (and other Western) governments are related to trends that go back very far in history. He pointed out that while Russia was dealing with Ivan the Terrible who roasted his enemies in big frying pans and "massacred 60,000 citizens of Novgorod" (link), in western countries there was never anything that harsh. Instead there was the gradual development of human rights and the rule of law. Even among Western governments one can see that those countries that have had a harsh, authoritarian, or corrupt past have a great deal of difficulty overcoming this. It's too much to expect that the excesses of the Soviet period have left no trace only a few years after the last communist government.

19 posted on 02/02/2004 3:21:04 AM PST by wideminded
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To: archy
The book is co-authored by former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko...

Litvinenko's first book The Lubianka Criminal Group left me staggered. It is not easy to believe the book's revelations of the corruption on every level of the Russian presidential administration (for instance, Putin's assistant Yastrzhembski participating in drugs trafficking from Afghanistan) and all the law enforcing authorities (FSB and Militia chiefs collabourating with the gangs). But then one thinks, what the h*ll, they're just commies swapping their ideological power for dollars...

As to the war in Chechnya, Litvinenko is sympathetic to the Chechens. He directly accuses Putin and his circle in war profiteering, and quite convincingly too.

On the other hand, he was very close to Berezovski ever since refusing to murder him on FSB orders. Now Litvinenko is one of Berezovski's bodyguard in London, so could he just being useful to his employer?

I am really not sure what to think.

20 posted on 02/02/2004 4:35:33 AM PST by Neophyte (Nazists, Communists, Islamists... what the heck is the difference?)
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