Flights Cut on Fear of al Qaeda Attacks (NEW info: WMD use on planes planned by AQ)

Washington Post ^ | FEb. 1, 2004 | Sara Kehaulani Goo and Dana Priest

[FairOpinion]

Intelligence indicating that al Qaeda terrorists are seeking to release a chemical or biological agent aboard an airliner, or transport a radiological device in cargo, prompted the cancellation of six international flights scheduled for today and tomorrow, senior administration officials familiar with the reports said yesterday.

The possibilities, as described by three intelligence officials, include releasing an undetectable biological agent such as smallpox or anthrax aboard a plane that passengers would then unknowingly spread; releasing a chemical agent to debilitate the passengers and crew so the plane could be hijacked, and sneaking a radiological device aboard a plane inside a piece of luggage.

Small amounts of chemical, biological or radiological material would be difficult to detect.

[templar]

Mecca and Medina are their "homeland".

In the same sense that Israel and Jerusalem are the 'homeland' of Christianity. Would nuking Israel eliminate Christianity?

We are not fighting a place or an army, we are fighting an idology, a religion. Unless we realize that, and openly admit to it, we will end up losing eventually.

[applemac_g4]

>In the same sense that Israel and Jerusalem are the
>'homeland' of Christianity. Would nuking Israel eliminate
>Christianity?

Actually, this is an incorrect analogy. Nothing in Christianity is specifically tied to the active maintenance of a geographic site. It, unlike Islam, is not an ideology of worldly conquest. On the other hand, the Haaj is a central tenant of Islam.

Eliminating Mecca and Medina would have the same effect on Islam as the 1st century Roman destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem had on Judaism.

[Dave Olson]

"The possibilities, as described by three intelligence officials, include releasing an undetectable biological agent, such as smallpox virus or anthrax spores, aboard a plane that passengers would then unknowingly spread;..."

I'm skeptical. From what I understand of smallpox, it's contageous only when the the person who has it shows symptoms (rash, blisters, fever...). And by that time, they are so sick they wouldn't be able to stand up, let alone walk around unnoticed.

[FairOpinion]

"In 1972, a single case of small pox transferred multiple times before the diagnosis was made, infected 11 others, who in turn infected 138 more people, led to the isolation of 10,000 people and vaccination of 20,000,000 people in Yugoslavia."


http://www.uic.edu/sph/cade/bioforum/smallpox/hershow/tsld019.htm

[FairOpinion]

Is smallpox contagious?

Extremely. It can spread like the common cold, through person-to-person contact and through the air. Contaminated clothing or bed linens can also spread the virus. Symptoms may develop anywhere from 7 to 17 days after exposure. An infected person is contagious only after symptoms develop.

===

BUT note the initial symptoms, during which they are already contagious are not obviously "smallpox symptoms":

What are the symptoms?
The first symptoms include:

high fever
fatigue
head- and backaches
possible vomiting
About two or three days after these symptoms begin, a rash appears, mostly on the face, arms, and legs. The rash starts out raised and pink and turns to pus-filled lesions that begin to crust over early in the second week. Scabs separate and fall off after about three or four weeks. An infected person is contagious from the time symptoms appear until the time the last scabs fall off.

[FairOpinion]

Probably more than you wanted to know, but I did more searching. This is from the CDC:

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/overview/disease-facts.asp

Transmission
Generally, direct and fairly prolonged face-to-face contact is required to spread smallpox from one person to another. Smallpox also can be spread through direct contact with infected bodily fluids or contaminated objects such as bedding or clothing. Rarely, smallpox has been spread by virus carried in the air in enclosed settings such as buildings, buses, and trains. Humans are the only natural hosts of variola. Smallpox is not known to be transmitted by insects or animals.

A person with smallpox is sometimes contagious with onset of fever (prodrome phase), but the person becomes most contagious with the onset of rash. At this stage the infected person is usually very sick and not able to move around in the community. The infected person is contagious until the last smallpox scab falls off.

[pbear8]

we have just been raised to HAZEL ALERT!!

HAZEL ALERT!

[templar]

Eliminating Mecca and Medina would have the same effect on Islam as the 1st century Roman destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem had on Judaism.

Judaism was still around afterward. Still is. The Jews of the time were already under the control of Rome, they just had a major faction (the Zealots) that were revolting. They (the Jews) were already being thougroughly defeated by the Romans, and were engaged in a civil war among themselves as well, by the time the temple was destroyed. The destruction was more symbolic than anything; not a decisive military victory, just the final act in a war. The Jews were not spreading throughout the world and converting anyone and everyone they came into contact with at the time either. Keep in mind that Islam is a religion of conquest, conversion through violence, and revenge (Yeah, that's right, Bush told a fib); Judaism is not. Comparing Islam and Judaism to predict social and religious results is a mistake. AQ (and all the other militant Islamic factions) will not be destroyed by simply destroying Mecca and Medina.

[GeronL]

I like old shows a lot... no worries about someone's top being ripped off... and I do recall a Hazel being a maid.... but I fogot which show that was..

[pbear8]

Good point, Hazel never had a 'wardrobe malfunction'.

The show was called 'Hazel'. Saw lots of reruns in LA as a kid.

[applemac_g4]

>Judaism was still around afterward. Still is.

Islam will be as well. But from the day the temple was destroyed to this day, Judaism has never engaged in offensive military action for religious reasons. The majority of Jews (who wear the label 'reformed' these days) just quit taking Jehovah very seriously after their temple was reduced to rubble. Annhilating Mecca and Medina will send equally large theological shockwaves throughout the world of Islam. As long as the pilgrimage sites of Islam stand, the claim that Allah will take down the great Satan have credibility on the Islamic street.

>They (the Jews) were already being thougroughly defeated by >the Romans

Taliban 0, USA 1. Saddam Hussein 0, USA 1. There is a parallel there.

>The destruction was more symbolic than anything; not a
>decisive military victory, just the final act in a war.

In a war against religion, the destruction of a temple is a decisive military victory. The Romans understood this. They could have razed every building of the Jewish secular state to the ground and it would not have had the psychological effect of wiping out the temple.

[ErnBatavia]

Starred Shirley Booth as Hazel....and don't axe me how I remembered that!

[shaggy eel]

don't axe me how I remembered that!

,,, I know you well enough to know why you remembered.

[ErnBatavia]

I know you well enough to know why you remembered.

Blast you! She looked so cute and innocent in that little maid's outfit....

[shaggy eel]

,,, "big" of you to admit it.

[Axenolith]

If you were vaccinated in the past you're probably OK. An outbreak in New York in, I believe it was the 50's, spared people in contact with the infected who'd been innoculated as much as 50 years prior.

Now, if it's an engineered strain, the bets are off, and the existing vaccine wouldn't work anyway.

[Axenolith]

That's also known as "Rabbit Fever" and frequently spread by handling wild rabbits? Possibly the peoples pets are catching them, and then fido or tabby are getting handled shortly after...

[traumer]

If this thing ever happens.... the whole airline industry will go up in smoke.

[Axenolith]

Islam is tied far more tightly to the physical manifestations of the religeon than Christianity and, to some extent, Judaism. The average education level of the devout Moslem, coupled with the sales pitch of orders of magnitude greater pleasures of the flesh in the afterlife for performing outlandish acts (by other cultures measures) in service to Allah are a tight bind on the members of Islamic cultures.

The destruction of Islamic holy sites and the killing of many of their radical clerics would probably put paid to at least the extremeist wing of the religeon. It worked against the Ismaili sect better known to westerners as the Assasins in the 1200's.

A soundly defeated religeous group tightly tied to it's physical holy objects and "active" diety will rationalize that some flaw must exist in their interpretation of their holy scripture for such terrible fate to have befallen them. In the case of radical Islam, the survivors of a full attack on them and their holy objects would represent at the least that their philosophy\interpretation was incorrect and at worst that they followed a false god who led them to destruction. I.e. if Allah is all powerfull and the one true god ready to roast all infidels, he could never allow the destruction of the Dome of the Rock, and\or Mecca and Medina.

Granted, one would like to avoid that level of destruction, if only because of the loss of the history in the artifacts (I assume their would be fair warning prior to their destruction, and subsequently relatively light collateral damage in that instance). Notice that you NEVER see even that level of consideration of restraint in an Islamic regime. Every place they emerge the majority, the religeous icons and places of worship of other faiths are trashed, looted and burned, and tuned into mosques. Even in a non Islamic state in which they've become a majority or near majority, there will be some cleric to stir up a mob and destroy the possesions and holy objects of infidels.

Radical Islam takes its course of destructive action due to a keen knowledge of western culture and the wests reluctance to wage total or "un PC" war (involving the destruction of historic or cultural artifacts or having a high collateral damage risk). As long as western civilization responds to militant rhetoric and "death of a thousand cuts" type terror\unconventional warfare tactics, the current level of loss and bloodshed is not only acceptable to them, it actually feeds the movement by providing a steady stream of martyrs and graphic evening news bits.

You might find some or all of this disagreeable. AFIC, the existance of a religeon whose central scripture incites and promises rewards for the violent subjugation and murder of people of other faiths is an extreme threat to the long term stability of human civilization on this planet. You have to search long and hard for Christians, Jews, Hindu's, Bhuddists, etc... who espouse physical subjugation and conversion of other faiths members. Even then, it is easy for even a newbie apologist for those theologies to pick apart their arguements. Not so with Islam, it is fertile ground for radicals and tyrants and will remain so until forced to hold some type of clerical council to "reevaluate" all of the "kill all of the infidels and convert them by the sword" passages from their holy texts.

BTW, it's an interesting historical footnote that the Khan's Grandson, Hulagu, laid siege to the Assasins fortress cities initially upon recieving requests for protection from moderate Islamic factions seeking relief from the depredations of the sects drugged fanatics...

[templar]

Not so with Islam, it is fertile ground for radicals and tyrants and will remain so until forced to hold some type of clerical council to "reevaluate" all of the "kill all of the infidels and convert them by the sword" passages from their holy texts.

This is key. But it's easier said than done. I expect that any clerical council formed with that intention might have a rather short life expectancy.