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Look before We Leap: Scandinavia and the End of Marriage
BreakPoint ^
| 30 Jan 04
| Chuck Colson
Posted on 01/30/2004 12:59:29 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
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The Weekly Standard article is posted
here.
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2
posted on
01/30/2004 1:01:52 PM PST
by
Mr. Silverback
(Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
To: Mr. Silverback
BTTT
3
posted on
01/30/2004 1:02:00 PM PST
by
King Black Robe
(With freedom of religion and speech now abridged, it is time to go after the press.)
To: Mr. Silverback
Well, our answer has always been that it would weaken marriage. Why? Because it would take away the unique status and benefits enjoyed by heterosexual couples granted by society, in society's own interest... Benefits like a 50%+ divorce rate, jackals, er, I mean lawyers, alimony, custody fights, court battles, child support, ruined credit, losing half of what they worked for...all those benefits. If the screaming pillow-biters want the joke that marriage has become today, I say let them have it. They will regret it more than anyone else.
4
posted on
01/30/2004 1:07:37 PM PST
by
Orangedog
(An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
To: Mr. Silverback
Scandanavia has problems. I read a study somewhere recentlently that said Scandanavian girls are becoming casually sexually active in their early to mid teens with a proportion of older men leaving a late teen and early 20s polulation of higly sexually experienced womem and male virgins. Marriage won't survive it.
5
posted on
01/30/2004 1:13:00 PM PST
by
RLK
To: RLK
When society produces a generation of Paris Hiltons, don't be surprised when men shy away from marriage.
6
posted on
01/30/2004 1:15:00 PM PST
by
KantianBurke
(Principles, not blind loyalty)
To: Mr. Silverback
But Mr. Kurtz also acknowledged in his article that the number of children living in two parent households is higher in Norway, than in the USA. The poverty rate is much lower and the teen conception rate is much lower as well.
In fact, whether both parents together support/care for/raise their children is more important than marriage per se.
7
posted on
01/30/2004 1:16:32 PM PST
by
Lorianne
To: Mr. Silverback
"The goal of the gay marriage movements in both Norway and Denmark . . . was not marriage but social approval for homosexuality." The agenda - for all to see.
To: Orangedog
If the screaming pillow-biters want the joke that marriage has become today, I say let them have it. They will regret it more than anyone else. But as Colson points out, they don't want marriage, they want legitimacy. Once the gay marriage laws pass, they lose interest in the process and go back to cruising, or whatever it is Norwegian gay people do.
9
posted on
01/30/2004 1:23:58 PM PST
by
Mr. Silverback
(Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
To: RLK
That is is wery correct, young women are in a sense more sexually liberal than young males here.
However what this article suggests is not at all true. Rather, it's the fact that very few scandinavians consider marriage to be important that enabled homosexual unions in the first place. There was never any real debate on them, and they are rarely brought a up. Most straight couples just register cohabitation instead of marrying.
10
posted on
01/30/2004 1:24:55 PM PST
by
Ringman
To: rmlew; nutmeg; firebrand
ping
11
posted on
01/30/2004 1:25:50 PM PST
by
Cacique
To: Mr. Silverback
But Mr. Kurtz also acknowledged in his article that the number of children living in two parent households is higher in Norway, than in the USA. The poverty rate is much lower and the teen conception rate is much lower as well.
http://www.psu.edu/ur/2001/singleparentmath.html
12
posted on
01/30/2004 1:26:50 PM PST
by
Lorianne
To: Lorianne
Though not everything is bad in Scandinavia, I've found that most of the "low poverty, low teen pregnancy shiny happy people" stuff is manipulation of facts or only half the story. For example, Sweden banned spanking, and child abuse skyrocketed. Not reports of "My neighbor still spanks his kid," but cases of real child abuse--"My neighbor punched his kid dead on the face last night!" But you won't hear any of that from the folks who want to liberalize the family, because they have to convince us that their ideas have worked where they're tried, and if telling us half-truths is what it takes, then that's OK because they're doing it for our own good.
13
posted on
01/30/2004 1:30:42 PM PST
by
Mr. Silverback
(Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
To: KantianBurke
When society produces a generation of Paris Hiltons, don't be surprised when men shy away from marriage.
-------------------
I'm not surprised.
14
posted on
01/30/2004 1:36:37 PM PST
by
RLK
To: Mr. Silverback
I don't see how that is applicable. Either two parent households are good for children or they aren't. All evidence supports that two parents actively engaged in supporting/caring for/raising their children is the optimal arrangement for children, and for society in general.
Don't get me wrong, marriage is great, admirable etc. I highly recommend it. But sticking together for your kids whether married or not is the the crux of the issue, not the piece of paper from the State saying the parents are married.
15
posted on
01/30/2004 1:36:45 PM PST
by
Lorianne
To: Lorianne
The position of Christian conservatives is not:"I don't care if all the kids get raised by crack whores, as long as there ain't any gay marriage!" The position is, "Children should be nurtured by a family that is some variation of a man and a woman married for life."
Given that position, an article about how bad single parenting is doesn't argue against me any more than an article about cheese curds.
16
posted on
01/30/2004 1:41:42 PM PST
by
Mr. Silverback
(Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
To: Lorianne
Two unmarried parents is usually better than only one parent, but marriage lends stability to what can otherwise be a nervous, tenatative arrangement. The promise to stay together is the important thing, made by two people who respect promises. Think of all the insecurity that vanishes, or should vanish, when that promise is made. That's when the unit becomes a family.
To: Lorianne
But sticking together for your kids whether married or not is the the crux of the issue, not the piece of paper from the State saying the parents are married. Gay marriage amounts to State endorsement of homosexual practice. That's bad.
18
posted on
01/30/2004 1:43:43 PM PST
by
Mr. Silverback
(Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
To: Mr. Silverback
Yes, we agree. However, the article you posted is misleading by ommitting what the original author, Mr. Kurtz, said about Scandinavia and how it stacks up for children ... vs. the USA. Gay marriage or not, kids seem to be better of there than here ... so he's not making his case very well that gay marriage is bad for society/bad for kids. Just becuase fewer parents are getting married in Scandinavia, it doesn't follow that they are also precipitating more "single-parent" households. The facts don't bear that out, which he conveniently ommits mentioning.
19
posted on
01/30/2004 1:47:31 PM PST
by
Lorianne
To: Mr. Silverback
I think maybe it's time to make marriage more special. It's just much too easy to get married and I don't think people wind up taking it seriously enough.
I think lawyers should be as involved in the formation of a marriage as they are in its termination.
20
posted on
01/30/2004 1:50:39 PM PST
by
Scenic Sounds
(Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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