Ashcroft thinks Patriot Act will stand

Mercury News ^ | 1/29/04 | Curt Anderson - AP

[NormsRevenge]

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration issued a veto threat Thursday against legislation introduced in Congress that would scale back key parts of the anti-terrorism Patriot Act.

In a letter to Senate leaders, Attorney General John Ashcroft said the changes contemplated by the Security and Freedom Ensured Act, or SAFE, would "undermine our ongoing campaign to detect and prevent catastrophic terrorist attacks."

[petercooper]

And it should.

[steve50]

Ahh, they said the same thing about CFR. A veto of PA reform should be just about the last nail in the GOP's coffin. It has as much opposition by republicans as liberals.

[george wythe]

In a letter to Senate leaders, Attorney General John Ashcroft said the changes contemplated by the Security and Freedom Ensured Act, or SAFE, would "undermine our ongoing campaign to detect and prevent catastrophic terrorist attacks."

Ashcroft has proven he's not a good steward of the Patriot Act.

If the Patriot Act was meant to "prevent catastrophic terrorist attacks," then why is the Patriot Act used to investigate and prosecute strip joint owners?

Touching a woman's breast might be immoral, even sinful, but it's a terrorist activity.

In my humble opinion, we have plenty of laws against local corruption; no need to use the Patriot Act to prosecute strip joint owners.

[george wythe]

Touching a woman's breast might be immoral, even sinful, but it's a terrorist activity

Correction: Touching a woman's breast might be immoral, even sinful, but it's not a terrorist activity

[John Beresford Tipton]

"Ashcroft thinks Patriot Act will stand" 2004

Hitler thinks Reich to last 1,000 years 1945

[Richard-SIA]

The cynically names "Patriot Act" is the 9-11 terrorist greatest triumph!

It is far more devastating to the foundations of America than the murder of a few thousand citizens and the destruction of a few buildings.

The terrorist never really thought that they could destroy America with their violent plots, they know that only congress can rip the American constitution to shreds.

Their hope was that congress would react exactly as they did, seizing the same excuse the Nazi's used, that the situation was now so desperate that ANY means is justifiable in pursuit of the critical desired result.

This "The end justifies the means" hysteria is the antitheses of what was intended by the founders of the great American experiment.

Terrorism must not be rewarded with weakening of the constitutional protections that made America the pinnacle of freedom.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"Ashcroft... said the legislation would "make it even more difficult to mount an effective anti-terror campaign than it was before the Patriot Act was passed."


Now I don't want to say Ashcroft is a lying POS, or whatever, so let's leave that to one side, for another day perhaps.

Rather, just read what he said and explain if it is sane, specifically:
How could provisions which he says weaken or sunset some provisions of the Patriot Act "make it even more difficult to mount an effective anti-terror campaign than it was before the Patriot Act was passed."

[George W. Bush]

I'm laughing here. Bush is less than a year from being lame duck.

He's being forced to lobby Congress to keep spending high and they're nervous about us voters already.

And many Dims and GOP legislators were always uncomfortable with some of the provisions of Patriot.

If he vetos, they'll override him. They'll tell him in advance. Therefore, no veto.

Ashcroft is blowing smoke. His time would be better spent washing someone's feet.

[GrandEagle]

Ashcroft has proven he's not a good steward of the Patriot Act.
True, but the really scary part is that many people want such a unconstitutional law, trusting anyone in government to be a good steward of a bad law is foolish. That is how we are going to loose our Republic.

[steve-b]

If the bill reaches President Bush's desk in its current form, Ashcroft said, "the president's senior advisers will recommend that it be vetoed."

Where the hell was his veto pen when Congress voted to give away ever-increasing portions of our income and that of our posterity unto the fourth generation?!?

[freeeee]

There are no even theoretical conditions for the "Patriot" Act to expire.

If further terrorist attacks occur, this is proof the PA should be kept and more laws are needed.

If no terrorist attacks occur, this is proof the PA is doing a good job, and should be renewed.

After 50 or so years of that, most living people will not remember a time when there was no PA, and repealing it will be as unrealistic as repealing the income tax today.

PA's expiration date was nothing but a smoke and mirrors show designed to placate those who didn't like the PA but could stomach it for a limited time. Its sponsors knew it would be permanent.

It's painfully obvious, to all but the most naive.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Good. I hope he does exercise his veto power, finally. The security of the nation is not anything to ignore.

[Recovering_Democrat]

I find your fears to be paranoid on the Oliver Stone level.

[templar]

How often does Bush threaten to veto something?

[Sir Gawain]

How often does Bush threaten to veto something?

Never if it involves increased spending of my money.

[freeeee]

Maybe you could describe how the PA could ever expire?

Paint a scenerio, I'd like to hear it.

BTW, fear of a real danger is not paranoia. OTOH, ignoring real danger is naivity.

[azhenfud]

The Patriot Act is a bag of Balloon Stuffing.

If this Administration were so dedicated in securing America, the US Borders would be so tight a starving mouse would have a hard time getting in. Instead, we've 8-12 million "undocumented" felons within our borders and no guts to expell them nor to enforce current laws.

Attorney General John Ashcroft has the authority to require immigration code enforcement - why doesn't he use the tools he already has?

[steve-b]

why doesn't he use the tools he already has?

Ashcroft & Co. remind me of a man-child who insists on buying all sorts of shiny new tools while his house falls apart from lack of maintenance and his credit card debt rises to the statosphere.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Maybe you could describe how the PA could ever expire?

I've been through this argument before, so let me just give the Readers' Digest version: the war against terror is won. Measures within the PA deemed appropriate for continued law enforcement and national security are kept, others are allowed to expire.

If you're really interested in an opinion and argument that is an alternative to the fear-mongering of the PA opponents, I invite you to find other threads about the subject and note the curious lack of evidence that the PA has been or is being used in an unconstitutional manner.