Posted on 01/29/2004 6:40:30 AM PST by areafiftyone
Fortunately GW Bush stopped the games and dealt with the situation.
I'm quite rational, and you have not made any case at all. You claim there's evidence pointing to no stockpiles existing. Please lay out said evidence in a convincing manner. Thank you.
I don't see any mystery at all. If they were used, they would have been nuked back into the stoneage. They know that. Plus, they weapons could have been so well hidden that they would be inaccessible at the time.
Apparently you see NO intelligence failures in ANYTHING regarding WMD and Iraq.
Oops.
To: Coop
And I've read the Kay reports. Plain and simple. The stockpiles projected before the war have not surfaced and the available evidence points to these stockpiles not existing.
That is a very important intelligence failure due to Tenet's reliance upon UN inspectors, satellites, and intercepts and Tenet's failure to have folks on the ground.
240 posted on 01/29/2004 9:36:41 AM PST by Solson (Our work is the presentation of our capabilities. - Von Goethe)
Please clarify your response #175 to me, because that is what I took away from it.
But, in your game of moving the goalposts, you still fail to understand, admit, or otherwise see there were intelligence failures. Kay saw them, Condi Rice see them, and most rational people agree.
And time and again on this thread I've shown claims like this to be downright silly.
But, in your game of moving the goalposts
I've moved nothing. I fear you're out of your league here, my friend.
In fact, that was the premise for my post #245.
So you disagree with Kay's statements of yesterday?
But Dr. Kay does a fine job of clarifying exactly what he means, no matter what the headlines imply.
Unfortuantely, I was only able to watch parts of it as I was at work. Thanks for the information, though. I was unaware of those findings.
from the June 7 2003 issue, it has a reverse spin goin'. The subtitle is "If there were no weapons, why didn't Saddam let his scientists talk?" But the editorial talks mostly about the partisan harping on the supposedly faked evidence. Of course the evidence for Iraqi WMD is real.If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD,"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998
So Did These People
compiled by John Hawkins
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002
"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002
[many others]Panel: Iraq Data Wasn't HypedPrime Minister Tony Blair's government did not deliberately "sex up" a dossier on Iraqi weapons by including a disputed claim about chemical and biological weapons, Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee ruled Thursday... A separate inquiry being led by Lord Hutton also is looking into the issue as it relates to the apparent suicide of arms expert David Kelly, who was named by officials as the possible source of a British Broadcasting Corp. report alleging the government exaggerated the threat from Iraq. The government denies the claims, which sparked a bitter feud between Blair's office and the British Broadcasting Corp. BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan subsequently said his source had blamed Blair's communications chief, Alastair Campbell, for insisting on including the claim. The Intelligence and Security Committee rejected those charges, and accepted the government's assertion that the Joint Intelligence Committee, which prepared the dossier, did not come under political pressure... The House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, in a report issued July 7, also absolved the government and Campbell.
by Ed Johnson, AP
9-11-03
[no link]A Question of ProofIn November 2002, the Security Council told Iraq to provide such verification of face the consequences. Even if Iraq really did give up its weapons, where was the proof? It could have supplied documents, dug up destroyed armaments, and allowed scientists to talk.
editorial
New Scientist
Amazon's search engine turned up this new ISBN for the title, but not surprisingly it was NOT the first entry.Nuke program parts unearthed in Baghdad back yardExperts said the documents and pieces Obeidi gave the United States were the critical information and parts to restart a nuclear weapons program, and would have saved Saddam's regime several years and as much as hundreds of millions of dollars for research. David Albright, who was a U.N. nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq in the 1990s, said inspectors "understood that Iraq probably hid centrifuge documents, may have had components, and so it is very important that those items be found." ...Obeidi said he felt unsafe in Iraq after the U.S.-led invasion and that he was getting pressure from different corners of the country. He also said other Iraqi scientists were watching to see if he was safe after he cooperated with the U.S. government. Now that he and his family are safely out of Iraq, Obeidi said he believes other scientists would come forward with other components of Iraq's weapons program.
Mike Boettcher,
David Ensor,
and producer Maria FleetIraqi uranium found but concerns remainOn Thursday, IAEA inspectors will complete their first mission to Iraq since the war. But they have not been allowed by the US to check the safety and security of these radiation sources, which are used in hospitals and factories or kept in storage. Many of the sources contain potentially lethal amounts of caesium 137, cobalt 60 and other radioactive isotopes. If stolen, they could be combined with a conventional explosive to make a bomb that would contaminate a city centre. They could also pose a serious threat to public health if mislaid or mishandled. Looting has been repeatedly reported at the biggest radiation store, the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Centre near Baghdad. Doctors in the area say they are seeing dozens of people every day with symptoms of radiation poisoning such as diarrhoea, rashes and nose bleeds... According to the IAEA director general, Mohamed ElBaradei, "most" of the uranium is accounted for, though he is still waiting for the final report from his inspectors. The material has been kept under IAEA seal since 1991 to prevent it from being manufactured into high-enriched uranium for atomic bombs.
by Rob Edwards
16:56 23 June 03Saddam's Bombmaker: France Helped Baghdad Get NukesAccording to Dr. Khidir Hamza, who ran Saddam's nuclear bombmaking program in the early 1990's, Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor was built by the French. When the Israelis determined that the reactor's real purpose was to make nuclear weapons, they destroyed it in a 1981 bombing raid. "From the moment Osirak was hit we knew we had to try another method to get the bomb," Dr. Hamza told the Washington Times in Sept. 2002. The year before Dr. Hamza confirmed that the Osirak reactor was never intended to be anything but a nuclear bombmaking plant.
Friday Jan. 24, 2002
Saddam's Bombmaker
by Khidhir Hamza
with Jeff Stein
I have no problem with the war. I thought it was the right thing to do and I still do. I'm just realistic enough to realize that we were probably wrong and that there were no stockpiles of WMD in Iraq. With a nut case like Saddam, its better to be wrong than be sorry. That still doesnt mean that there has to be WMD stockpiles just because Bush said so based on intel.
Or it could mean it was never there.
You dont think there is some similar lack of humility and shallow thinking among those who know for a fact that the WMD are buried in Syria or Lebbanon or under a house in Baghdad. That they were given to Syria or given to Iran or given to Alqaeda, whoever. Unfortunately they cant provide GPS coordinates. LOL.
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