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To: nwrep; Nathaniel Fischer
But the courts uphold entities and theie rules over the individual's right to property. Am I off base here? Seems to me the right to life, liberty and property trumps EVERYTHING else.
39 posted on 01/25/2004 6:21:59 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: ovrtaxt; Nathaniel Fischer
Seems to me the right to life, liberty and property trumps EVERYTHING else.

It obviously does not trump "everything else" . You could be deprived of any of these "rights" in a minute if the circumstances are correct. For instance, if you are convicted of murder and sentenced to the death penalty, your so-called "right to life and liberty" is out the window. Similarly, if you violate a written contract, such as a loan, you lose whatever property is covered by the terms of the contract. One of the basic functions of the government is to enforce contracts. If it failed to do so, anarchy would result.

The only guarantee the Constitution gives you about these "rights" is fair and due process. But every legal document you sign could restrict some of your rights. You just don't know it.

64 posted on 01/25/2004 6:39:40 AM PST by nwrep
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To: ovrtaxt
But the courts uphold entities and their rules over the individual's right to property. Am I off base here? Seems to me the right to life, liberty and property trumps EVERYTHING else.

Your natural rights life, liberty, and property only exist if others agree to respect them.

This means you have to respect the rights of others.

This means a system of trust has to be in place.

If you enter into an agreement with a HOA or anything else, you have to be trusted to keep your word.

Other wise the system of trust falls apart.

When the system of trust falls apart so does the respect for your natural rights.

Remember "Natural Rights" do not exist in nature, animals steal from each other all the time!

Natural Rights are merely a concept in our heads!

91 posted on 01/25/2004 6:48:37 AM PST by Mark was here (My fan club: "Go abuse some family member, as I'm sure is your practice." - Principled)
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To: ovrtaxt
"Seems to me the right to life, liberty and property trumps EVERYTHING else."

I think you are referring to one of the phrases in Amendment V, U.S. Constitution to make your contention stated above.

Your contention is incorrect for two reasons:

One, the correct version of Amendment V is "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;" The Radcliff's were afforded the "due process of law."

Two, the Constitution only applies to government entitities. It has no jurisdiction within a private contract.

An HOA is private organization that the Radcliff's were a member of just becasue they were a propery owner. You have no constitutionally enumerated rights to be allowed or protected within a private organization.

More than likely when they signed the contract to purchase their home, they also signed an affadavit acknowledging receipt of the HOA rules, explaining to them what would happen to them if they became in arrears on their association fees.

The Radcliff's also probably had an opportunity to attend annual or semi-annual association meetings in which board members were nominated and elected. As with most HOA's, very few members attend these meetings and subsequently are surprised by the HOA's actions, when, due to their laziness or negligence, fail to attend the annual or semi-annual meetings when board members are elected and when rule changes are suggested and enacted.

It is easy to call the board members who foreclosed on the Radcliff's Nazi's, but they were doing the job that the other HOA members had elected them to do.

Quite, simply this entire matter is nothing more than basic contract law.

The Radcliff's are adults. They entered into a contract and failed to keep up their side of the contract agreement.

Fortunately, here in my home state of Missouri, the Missouri Constitution states, Article I, Section 13, "That no ex post facto law, nor law impairing the obligation of contracts, or retrospective in its operation, or making any irrevocable grant of special privileges or immunities, can be enacted."

142 posted on 01/25/2004 7:31:07 AM PST by tahiti
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