Couple lose their home over $120 debt

The Sacramento Bee ^ | January 24, 2004 | Michael Kolber -- Bee Staff Writer

[DelaWhere]

Couple lose their home over $120 debt By Michael Kolber -- Bee Staff Writer Published 2:15 a.m. PST Saturday, January 24, 2004 Get weekday updates of Sacramento Bee headlines and breaking news. Sign up here.

COPPEROPOLIS -- A retired couple's dispute with their homeowners association has spiraled out of control in this Calaveras County community -- and now they have lost their home less than a year after failing to pay $120 in annual dues.

[Polybius]

It could be that the Mrs. had a hard time handling the finances when her husband was ill.

And this is whose fault? I guess we should just suspend all of the rules for those who are having a tough time.

That's what I do when a patient comes to me with financial problems that prevents them from paying my bills. I have my billing company set up a payment plan or, depending on the circumstances, I reduce the bill or write it off all together.

But, that's just me. I don't feel right squeezing money out of old, sick people in a financial bind. Others have absolutely no problem with it.

And turning a $125 debt into a $1,900 debt with "late fees" and "collection charges"?

Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see the details as to how someone can balloon an account receivable into 15 times it's original worth just in case I ever decide to go over to the Dark Side.

[petercooper]

I don't buy this story at all.

[DelaWhere]

Some thoughts...

1. If it acts like a government, sounds like a government and taxes like a government, is run by elected officials like a government, how can constitutionality be sent out the window by saying 'oh, but we are not a government'?

2. How can 25 cents on the dollar be claimed to be 'just compensation'?

3. Looking at their HOA newsletter seems to show there must be others who are violently revolting against this HOA - or at least the manager -

"A Message from Linda?s Desk

On a personal note, I just wanted to comment on the recent shooting of my ram and the poisoning of my goat. If anyone has a problem please let me know. It was a very cowardly thing to do in my opinion to kill and hurt innocent animals.
"

4.Even the minutes of their meetings sure do NOT do much to 'inform' their members of what is taking place...
Pardon me for using a Rushism but their very French sounding Chairman Yvette Villeneuve-Ezell does little to give them even the slightest inkling of what is going on....

"Reports: Yvette
*Architectural Board
Two variance appeals ? 1 accepted, 1 not approved
Lawyer advised that we can ask him to send cease & desist orders.
Much discussion on attractive houses & modular homes.
* Plans Submitted: 17 Approved: 7 YTD: 90
Transfers: 25 Year to Date: 259

* Treasurers Report: Whittley
2004 Budget condensed version with additional comment that $45,000 still needs to be transferred to reserves. 8-A assessments will not be planned on until received.

Budget 2004 approved with correction for $45,000 to go to reserve account and 8-A assessments not included until actually received. Approved 5-0."

Hmmmmm $45,000 to reserves but can't stand to have a member $120 behind for a year - doesn't sound like it cramped them financially.....

5.Guess I feel that Conservatism should encompass a degree of common sense, a sense of fairness, a sense of compassion or we might as well hang up our spurs and say that the DemoRats every person for themselves attitude (while espousing otherwise) has won. My brand of Conservatism is not 'anything for a buck in my pocket'.

[wardaddy]

I'm with you....I would not personally live in an HOA but I do live by my village covenants.

I don't think 120 bucks is all there is to this. There was mention of a tax lien as well.

Why did they not go to a bank and ask to borrow a thousand bucks on their home which was appraised at 258K.

Something does not compute.

[Cultural Jihad]

We are approaching a point where the courts and the constitution are diametrically opposed. When critical mass is reached, probably through some seminal event, bigger and more intrusive than Waco or Elian Gonzalez, the words of the Founding Fathers will carry more weight.

I know nobody wants to seriously discuss armed resistance right now, (despite some of the posts here), but I can see it coming. Regardless of who gets elected.

Speaking of humanist ideologue fantasy nonsense, every Marxist-Leninist is equally certain that the worldwide proletarian revolution is just around that next corner, so keep the faith, tavarich. On alternate days, they are equally convinced that the whole world is about to slide into the eternal pit of fascism. And so goes their little mental dynamic.

[KC Burke]

While taxes do change, they are lienable and mortgagers want to protect themselves so will deal with the changes. HOAs can really be flighty on changes and accounting practices. I imagine that it can be done, but I don't hear of it much in the midwest.

[El Gran Salseron]

"one must conclude that you are dissatisfied with your life. OR, talk is cheap!"

It is not necessarily either of those reasons.

Everyone has their own basic set of principles by which they live. If someone else or some other entity abridges one or more of those principles then that person will stand up and be counted.

Some people's principles are loose. Other people's principles are narrow and tight.

If you would sheepishly move out of your house because of a $120 unpaid bill then one would have to assume that your principles are very loose.

I am not attacking you personally, merely making a point about assumptions.

Some people might not wait for the SWAT team to show up. They would go, armed to the gills, through the neighborhood looking for the HOA committee members.

I'm merely pointing out that you are making assumptions about someone you probably know nothing about.

This same thing happened here. The HOA was sending mail to a lady's house for HOA fees addressed to her deceased husband. She had bought the house well after his death. How in the world the HOA even got his name is still a mystery. She simply threw away all mail addressed to him. The HOA sold the house at auction. The homeowners themselves revolted against the HOA and the retired/widowed lady got her home back.

Don't be so quick to judge and pschoanalyze. :-)

[CajunConservative]

We just don't think twice to offer help, but nobody seems to want to do this anymore and instead get some glee out of reporting other people for a minor offense and one with which they have never asked their neighbors if they would be willing to cooperate or offer their help to fix. Instead of trying initial, less intensive steps that will probably work with most people, neighbors just go straight to the top and report away.

That is so true. People are more concerned with property values than building relationships with people. I have been blessed to have had some wonderful neighbors in my lifetime. When my mom died at home at nearly midnight, I was with her by myself, and EVERY ONE of my neighbors came to help and do what they could for me. When she was sick, they helped with the yard, house repairs, you name it. They were our friends and when one family had a need the neighbors were right there to pitch in and help where they could.

Something else that was nice about this neighborhood too, the kids could play outside and be kids. They were free to ride their bikes, build forts and play ball. They could do that because all the parents knew each other and would keep an eye on things.

I would not want to live in an HOA where your neighbors are waiting for you to break one little rule so they can report you. Sure the property may have a few more dollars of monetary value, but with neighbors like that is it really a better investment in the long run?

[CajunConservative]

I live in the country (ok, it's really a swamp!). I don't pay property tax (yet). Too poor.

Yep, there is a couple of good things about Louisiana. Homestead Exemption is one of them :o)

[Godfollow]

The association has no grace plan? This should concern all the other homeowners... wouldn't they wish a little grace for themselves if they come upon hard times???

Something like,
"We understand you are going through some difficulty this year, and as a group of concerned homeowners we want to help you stay a part of our community because we believe we're all about helping each other. So for the year 2003 we are forgiving the $120, and for the next year we will only charge half of the annual dues, and by the following year you'll be expected to resume regular annual dues payments.

We suggest that you contact you church or synagogue and family and friends to let them know of your difficult situation and that these annual dues are part of your agreement for living in our neighborhood. If it becomes clear to you and your close community of caring family and friends that you will not be able to meet your obligations to the Homeowners' Association Agreement that you signed, then perhaps they will be able to assist you in meeting your obligations or in finding a better living arrangement.

We want to be as gracious as we can given your present circumstances, but we also must be fair to all the other homeowners, as they expect that they must uphold their agreement and pay their annual dues the same as everyone else.

Our best wishes to your husband and we hope your circumstances change for the better, as we value your friendship in our association.

Sincerely..."

don't ya think this is what anyone would wish for themselves if they fell upon such circumstances, including those who oversee the operations of the HOA?

[Wissa]

That's what I do when a patient comes to me with financial problems that prevents them from paying my bills. I have my billing company set up a payment plan or, depending on the circumstances, I reduce the bill or write it off all together.

What do you do when you have a patient that owes you money, doesn't do anything to make payment arrangements and you know they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets they COULD use to pay you?

Just curious.

[Semper911]

I wish you were in charge of the world. That is exactly how the association should have handled it.

[petercooper]

who doesn't have $120?

cmon...

[Wissa]

don't ya think this is what anyone would wish for themselves if they fell upon such circumstances

Such circumstances that befell them being.... they had a $250,000 house they could have got a home equity loan on? Their children could have helped them out instead of passing on the shortfall involuntarily to the other homeowners?

[DelaWhere]

Your silver spoon is showing.....

Obviously you have never been exposed to the ups and downs of this voyage called life.....

While I could say the same thing NOW, there were times in my life when I did not have $120 either!!!

[Godfollow]

Well, we certainly don't know all the facts... and I will not put up an argument on an issue such as this, except to say that the house was auctioned for $70,000... I can't imagine a house worth $250,000 being auctioned off for 70.

Seems a shame to loose anything for 120 bucks. I run a business, and I excercise grace toward my customers both in the time they pay and in the amount, and we have forgiven debt. My bottom line is none the worse.

[petercooper]

Silver spoon my ass.

Then you should not be living in a $260K house if you can't scrape together $120.

[verity]

Hold on a minute.

I never advocated "moving out sheepishly."

Pern wanted to go hunting with a hand gun. I was indelicately inferring that there were other rational options.

[pamlet]

First of all - from the sounds of things it's been assessed at 260,000 for taxing. I'd looked on google - the house certainly doesn't look like a 260,000 house - even by California standards. A quick glance online found that things in that area have boomed.. it's on 3 acres, and who knows what he has in it...

People DO fall on hard times - tho' one would think the HOA would have tried to work out a payment with them. That is what we do with folks who are willing... we've been known to work it out with them suggesting we remind them when their check comes in to give us a payment... it can take forever, but as long as they are making an effort we work with them.

The thing as a property owners board we found was that it's human nature for a number of people who are just too embarassed if they cannot pay the full amount. When we approach them with kindness and respect, suggesting a payment plan, they usually are more than willing to pay.

However, there are those who NEVER pay .. they are the ones difficult to deal with.

The point is, I'd like to see what effort the HOA made. Another article I read online had this quote:

"In January he got a letter," said office manager Linda Hoopiiaina, who insists she did everything by the book. "He got another one in April: 'This account is past due.'"

From the looks of it they made 2 attempts and boom started the proceedings. One of which was the original invoice.

Also, there is no mention of his past payment record.

I still contend something is strange with this whole deal, from all appearances (granted just what can be found on the web) the HOA moved very quickly, and someone bought it very quickly. Not to mention their very large "fee" plan..

[Polybius]

What do you do when you have a patient that owes you money, doesn't do anything to make payment arrangements and you know they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets they COULD use to pay you? Just curious.

Well, first and foremost, personal communication by one flesh and blood human being to another.

Maybe we got their address wrong. Maybe they are on vacation. Maybe they are in deep financial trouble. Whatever.

The owner of my billing service gives them a personal phone call and asks, "Is there a problem?"

If there is a problem, we try to work it out. If it's a case of true financial difficulties, we reduce the bill, set up a payment schedule or sometimes write it off altogether.

If it is actually a case where you get a jerk, you let the collections process go to it's conclusion and they end up with a black mark on their credit rating.

Every once in a while, we get a sheepish phone call or even a personal visit to pay a bill that was "forgotten" or "misplaced". It seems that they lived with the black mark on their credit rating for a year or two untill they applied for credit and were denied because of it.

On the flip side, my billers told me last week of two cases with my accounts. We billed the insurance company $30 or so and they mailed us a check for $4,000. We mailed it back. On another account, the insurance company paid their share and advised us to bill the patient directly for the balance of......$9,000,000 (nine million dollars). Don't you just hate it when a computer key gets stuck. :-)

The bottom line is that mistakes happen all the time in billing matters and there is no subsitute for common sense and courtesy by all sides and, above all, humam beings talking to human beings and not simply relying on paper threats.