The End of Marriage in Scandinavia

The Weekly Standard ^ | February 2, 2004 | Stanley Kurtz

[fish hawk]

how many of you really read this whole article all the way through? Skoal

[Siamese Princess]

This is a temporary situation. as birthrates among the native Scandinavians plummet, birthrates among Muslim immigrants remain high. Furthermore, they don't follow the Scandinavian examples of having children outside of marriage. In a few decades, Muslims will be the majority in Scandinavia and will vote to impose the Sharia. Those Scandiavians who are still practicing Christians will have dhimmitude force onto them. Those who are non-believers will face worth. Demographics + "one man one vote" ain't life a bitch.

I agree. Add the inevitable collapse of the welfare state, I would say within 30 years, tops.

[RLK]

The trend is that men and women like sex, but they don't like each other. This results in eschewing commitment and out of wedlock children.

[Paleo Conservative]

I agree. Add the inevitable collapse of the welfare state, I would say within 30 years, tops.

Of course! Why would Muslims want to pay taxes to subsidize the lifestyles of infidels? I cringe when I read how some economists think we could solve the demographic problems of Social Security by opening the country to more third world immigration from counties like Pakistan.

[litany_of_lies]

This is not what proponents of the conservative case for gay marriage had in mind. In Norway, gay marriage has given ammunition to those who wish to put an end to marriage.

The day appears to be coming when those who aren't married but have children are openly hostile to those who are. The whole "social stigma" thing will get turned on its head. Based on the positions and conduct of some of the shrinks and bureaucrats cited in the article, you see that beginning to happen in Scandanavia already.

It may seem impossible now, but I see legislative and bureaucratic barriers to marriage increasing. Perhaps the idea of married filing jointly goes away (all tax returns are individual), which in an ideal world might be conceptually OK, but would be the product of a crusade (funny word) against marriage.

I see Social Services zealots going after married families and taking their kids away for teaching Christianity, and that homosexuality is wrong,etc. (that's already happening to a limited extent today). It could get to the point where people who believe in the institution would have to start marrying in secret to protect themselves.

Overall, this article is VERY important. Out-of-wedlock birth rates in Scandanavia are up there with American inner cities. We're instinctively not OK with 70%-plus out-of-wedlock rates; in Scandanavia, it's ho-hum. Acceptance of gay marriage appears to have tipped the balance there, and it probably would do so here too.

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Perhaps the idea of married filing jointly goes away (all tax returns are individual), which in an ideal world might be conceptually OK, but would be the product of a crusade (funny word) against marriage.

That's exactly how the welfare state in Sweden works. Benefits are accorded and accounted and given to each individual; it's not based on a family.

[litany_of_lies]

I read it all. I'm a glutton, and almost all of it was news to me.

When I come across new info like this (often on FR):
- it almost always supports conservative economic and social positions.
- it's usually the kind of info you'd guess will NEVER see the light of day in the mainstream press.

I'm also somewhat irritated, because we shouldn't have to work as hard as we do to get our arms around important info like this.

BTW, I wonder if the out-of-wedlock rates in Scandanavia are pushing 100% if you exclude Muslim immigrants?

[litany_of_lies]

All I can say is thank goodness the child credits and other family-friendly provisions got into place during the past couple of years.

The cultural tide being what it is, at least now it's a matter of preventing repeal.

[Siamese Princess]

Of course! Why would Muslims want to pay taxes to subsidize the lifestyles of infidels? I cringe when I read how some economists think we could solve the demographic problems of Social Security by opening the country to more third world immigration from counties like Pakistan.

You've put your finger on something -- one of the justifications for massive third world immigration into this country is based on the need for more workers and taxpayers to keep the colossal ponzi scheme known as Social Security afloat. This is based on the dubious assumption that a predominately non-white work force will willingly pay taxes, and heavy ones at that, so that a group of mostly white old folks can live the life of Riley.

Actually, forget the Muslims -- assume they are not here (I wish). What I meant was that the increasingly heavy taxes and innumerable destructive social effects of the welfare state will eventually destroy a nation, both morally and economically.

[Cindy]

JESUS DEFINES MARRIAGE: "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore, they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." -from THE BIBLE: Matthew 19:4-6

International Healing Foundation

[Siamese Princess]

This is an excellent article, though not flawless. I think that he underestimates the destructive social effects of both no-fault divorce and cohabitation.

[Siamese Princess]

I meant to say cohabitation even when it is considered "trial marriage."

[foreverfree]

bump

[NYpeanut]

Ya know, I read a lot of bitter stuff about marriage at FR written by men, but I hear similar tales from the other side every day at work. Sad stories of fathers who never, or seldom, call or visit their children, and tales of child support that is sporadic at best. Always two sides to every story, I guess. The other side just doesn't hang out at FR; too busy keeping things together. It's too bad it all comes down to the dollar cost of raising children.

[July 4th]

Bump

[Siamese Princess]

Ya know, I read a lot of bitter stuff about marriage at FR written by men, but I hear similar tales from the other side every day at work. Sad stories of fathers who never, or seldom, call or visit their children, and tales of child support that is sporadic at best. Always two sides to every story, I guess. The other side just doesn't hang out at FR; too busy keeping things together. It's too bad it all comes down to the dollar cost of raising children.

You are right, NYpeanut. I've heard horror stories about vindictive ex-wives seeking to drive a wedge between their ex-husbands and children, but I've also heard as many stories about men who simply lose interest in their children and pay child support grudgingly, if at all. Good men are victimized by bad women and good women are victimized by bad men.

[independentmind]

Bump for a long but good article.

[reg45]

You can't divorce without first getting married.

Therefore, marriage is the primary cause of divorce.

I used to analogize it by saying that birth is the primary cause of death, but today you can die (be aborted) without being born!

[Snerfling]

I won't pay half my salary to my ex-wife till I die.

A friend of mine said "Why live with a room-mate I can't stand and buy a house for a woman I hate?" He's still single, but because he dabbles in cheesecake photography on the side, he's always got some attractive female hanging around.

Side note: I've met a semi-celebrity Playboy model (now on TV) when they were doing her original submissions. Weirdest thing in the world to be scanning through proof-sheets of a beautiful naked chick while she's sitting next to you asking your opinion about her pose/figure.

[Destro]

I am not married and am not bitter. Just arguinga point that makes sense. Marriage and the raising of children is so expensive in the western world we are not reproducing. It all comes down to money and not this social-culture-lifestyle thing that those on the left and right would have us think it is.

Men see divorces-see marriage failures and say I don't mind risking a divorce - but I will have to pay for it almost the rest of my life? Maybe be accused of child abuse? Forced to pay so much I can never afford to remarry? screw that!