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To: u-89
This is slightly off topic but I think it worthwhile to talk about the Dead Enders as a unique entity that can be used to dislodge the Mainstream Rightists and get them back on the path of 'all that is good and true.'

I think the WMDead Enders are an example of the crisis in masculinity.

War mongers in the past like say Rudyard Kipling were still masculine individuals who boldly declared that Empire was a worthy cause to die for. These people are like policy wonks, boring you to sleep with tales that would not scare a 10 year old, let alone understand what the hell the person is babbling about.

Thus the absence of the WMDs will be handled in stride by Mainstream Rightists as an intelligence and political failure that requires a remedy (resignations, dismissals), however, the Dead Enders will keep digging their own graves, unable to deal with the shame of being duped.

112 posted on 01/27/2004 11:17:24 AM PST by JohnGalt ("...but both sides know who the real enemy is, and, my friends, it is us.")
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To: JohnGalt; billbears; Burkeman1
Each of you responded to my post #93 but since time is short I will respond en mass rather than individually. Besides we all have similar thoughts on government, the constitution and the current state of affairs foreign and domestic so my comments should interest all even if I'll be saying nothing profound or new to any of us.

The differences we have on policy with others on this site stems from the fact that we have a guiding set of principles that we adhere to which others merely play lip service to. When confronted with the discrepancy between those base principles and current policies they support our fellow "conservatives" rationalize, excuse, explain, twist, turn, cite this or that or just plain get mad. What we have witnessed is Antonio Gramsci's revolution through evolution. And I am referring to the conservative movement itself not society at large.

We all recognize and loath how liberalism appeals to the base human emotions of greed and envy. How they group people, play up grievances and pit groups against each other then uphold government as savior, protector and provider. I submit that since W.W.II the anti-liberals (we'll call them conservatives for discussions sake) have been misled by a leadership that appeals to base human emotions just like the liberals. Where the liberals group individuals into ethnic, race and gender groups (and now sexual) the conservatives group the individuals into one large group - we're all American's, then pit us against other groups (nations and ideologies). In short they take survival and patriotism and turn it into expansive nationalism under the guise of self defense. A base human instinct is tribalism, both the left and right play on that but in different ways. The liberals capitalize on other base human instincts like food, clothing and shelter and the right plays on the survival instinct of both the individual but moreso the nation and its way of life. Godless communism fit the bill perfectly to get conservatives to embrace all the aspects of globalism and empire and now Islamic terrorism gets the religious and survival juices flowing.

Conservatism is dead. Look at the countless Civil War threads where it is amazing how many conservatives jettison principle of self determination, states sovereignty and limited federal power because of the greater good of preserving the union. They value quantity over quality though they actually believe they have both. They lament that if the states split in the 1860's we wouldn't be the big powerful nation we are today. And there lies the crux of it. They worship power. As I mentined once before it's the sportsfan complex. As countless posts attest they like "kicking ass" more than peace, prosperity and security. So in summary it is the worship of power and the fear of boogie men that has conservatives embracing empire, global government, fiscal irresponsibility while ditching national sovereignty and peace. They have embraced a socialist globalist world view as wise policy all their own. Look at that sicko who posted the FOUR MORE WARS thread last night and how many agreed with him as a sign of how far we've fallen. Too many conservatives respond to war like Pavlov's dogs. I blame the 50 year state of perpetual cold war for hammering the last nails in the coffin of the old republic and it was the so called loyal bodyguards of that republic which drove those last nails home.

113 posted on 01/27/2004 7:47:42 PM PST by u-89
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To: JohnGalt
I think the WMDead Enders are an example of the crisis in masculinity. [Oh, so standing up for truth and for a president willing to lay his political future on the line in order to protect the country and rid the world of a madman shows a crisis in masculinity?]

War mongers in the past like say Rudyard Kipling were still masculine individuals who boldly declared that Empire was a worthy cause to die for. These people are like policy wonks, boring you to sleep with tales that would not scare a 10 year old, let alone understand what the hell the person is babbling about. [This from a person who lacks knowledge of basic facts regarding active WMD programs found in Iraq, or the basic intellect to realize that WMD programs produce WMD! Gee, most ten-year olds would understand that, but not the exalted JohnGalt!]

Thus the absence of the WMDs will be handled in stride by Mainstream Rightists as an intelligence and political failure that requires a remedy (resignations, dismissals), however, the Dead Enders will keep digging their own graves, unable to deal with the shame of being duped. [What absence of WMD? Brucella, ricin, Congo Crimean Hemmorhagic Fever...sound like BW agents to me. Ah! But they were only being researched, they weren't stored in nicely-labeled vials marked "Banned WMD Agent"! You have the same foreign policy understanding as a John Kerry- or Howard Dean-type.]

Dude, I see your little fantasy world is still intact and harboring you safely from the realities of the cold world! People who question others' masculinity usually have some deep-seated problems of their own.

I have asked you several times to spell out the difference between Hussein having WMD programs and WMD stockpiles, and you can't. I have asked you several times to show me actual quotes of President Bush stating that we were going to war solely on the basis of actual WMD stockpiles, and you can't. You lack basic factual information relevant to this debate, and when I wipe the floor with you and run circles around you, you slink off without replying to my questions. Not the sign of a real man in my book.

You are typical of many delusional people in thinking that whatever or whomever you like personally is representative of your political beliefs. But, I have news for you, Johnny Cash was not a right-winger in spite of being a great musical figure, and Ken Kesey was not a right-winger, either. Lumping them into some fantasy all-star camp of right-wing purists is just further evidence of how far out-of-touch with reality you are.

115 posted on 01/29/2004 9:54:55 AM PST by HenryLeeII
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