So you think George W. Bush is not a conservative?

SOTU transcript ^ | 1/22/04

[international american]

Welcome to California:)

[Capitalist Eric]

The free market is actually at work when Mexicans cross the border to pick our crops.

NICE try...

But the free market is skewed when the government intentionally brings in resources outside what is normally available to the free market, i.e., illegal aliens.

This results an overabundance of untrained, ignorant people who are willing to work for tiny amounts of money, forcing down the overall wage scale, thereby removing the incentive to develop machinery. It keeps the operational costs down (more money for the bigwigs of companies), and removes the capital investments necessary to improve the technology (more money for the bigwigs of companies).

In effect, the illegal aliens are being brought in to preclude the development of new technologies which would make them obsolete (and therefore want to go BACK to Mexico, where they'd be a thorn in Vicente Fox's ass, instead of ours).

Calling me a liberal only proves that you have no answer to the question.

I never called you a liberal, but that you have the liberal mindset- which is to say, you're either insane or ignorant. Whether or not the shoe fits, has no relevance on whether I have the "answer to the question." Which, BTW, I do.

Please send your suggestions of cheaper technology to the farmers of America. As it is they are losing marketshare to Chili and South America.

Big deal. Chile and the rest of S. America are largely one-trick ponies, when it comes to agriculture. They specialize in a few select crops, so that they will have market-share... But, as with any minor economy as compared to the macroeconomic picture, when the tastes of the market change to something else, they'll go right back to being poor, miserable countries, where the dictators will squander their remaining resources as the rest of the populace starves...

Yes, your examples were wonderful.

Instead, consider Australia: they have a shortage of manpower to begin with... They decide to make wines, without resorting to bringing in every loser that refuses to change their own country... So what do the Aussies do??? They design machinery to pick the crops. And they've become quite successful... You gonna' tell them to import a few million Mexicans, to pick grapes??? They'll laugh at such a stupid idea...

[PhiKapMom]

Would bet that we are not going to be missing two votes. If you had bothered to listen to his campaign speeches in 2002, he has done exactly what he said he would do. You don't even know the meaning of the word "socialist."

Here is an education before you toss that word around so loosely in the future about Pres Bush. Everytime I see any of you call President Bush a socialist again, you will get this same lesson from the dictionary:

Socialist:

1 : one who advocates or practices socialism
2 : capitalized : a member of a party or political group advocating socialism

Socialism:

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

[Neets]

Is there a difference between a Republican Pretender and a RINO?

But I digress; who pray tell IS the GREAT PRETENDER?

Oh yes, I'm the great pretender
Pretending that I'm doing well
My need is such,
I pretend too much
I'm lonely,
But no one can tell

Oh yes, I'm the great pretender
Adrift in a world of my own
I play the game,
But to my real shame
You've left me
To dream all alone

Too real is this feeling
Of make believe
Too real when I feel
What my heart can't conceal

Oh yes, I'm the great pretender
Just laughin' and gay like a clown
I seem to be what I'm not you see
I'm wearing my heart like a crown:
Pretending that you're still around.

[gatorbait]

Just laughin' and gay like a clown

When did this become a Gacy thread?

[Jim Robinson]

Yes, and, in my opinion, the best way to preserve our freedom and national sovereignty today is to re-elect President Bush and throw as many Godless, America hating, U.N. loving Democrats out of office as is humanly possible.

[honeygrl]

I don't know how you understood what she said, but I understood from the first post that it was hearsay from someone else on the forum. Her other posts regarding it were about the possibility of that happening. We speculate and discuss possibilities all the time on this forum.

And the riot has begun already. It began when Bush said the words "immigration reform" in his speech.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The Bush immigration proposal was in fact a directive to Congress to overhaul the obviously broken immigration system in the US. In his speech, he laid out a list of the things that he believes would have a positive impact in bringing immigration under control, but it's up to Congress to formulate the changes and send them to his desk for signature.

I have yet to hear any solution to the problem of the estimated ten million illegals already here, including the idiotic eighteen step list being bandied about in this forum, a list which fails to recognize the obvious hundreds of steps needed to arrive at a position where all those line items could be achieved...the complete defeat of the liberal wing of the government.

When making a decision on how you will cast your vote, you need to listen to what each candidate says that they will do if elected, estimate that candidate's electability (politicians can't make changes in government if they're not elected), and after you have voted for them, you need to track what percentage of their promises they kept while in office.

The problem with most people feigning disappointment with Bush's performance, is that they are judging him not based on what he said he would do, and how he carried out those promises, but rather on what they THINK he should have done according to their ideological position.

[George W. Bush]

That was a very good post. I don't agree with all the premises or conclusions. But a well-constructed argument regardless.

Now I have to re-read it and try to figure out if you've been listening to Rush or if Rush has been listening to you. Your argument is very reminiscent to ones he's been using recently about how people vote for a positive message and for a candidate who credibly offers them something that they want enough to turn out and vote for it. The argument assumes that both parties will always get their activist base, no matter what.

I think both parties are trying to be more attentive to their fringes this year. We'll see if either one can pull it off. For Dims, this would mean getting the White House. For Republicans, it would be a Bush landslide and 60 Senators.

[international american]

I can see no conservatives are angry, based on the number of posts on this thread:)

[ohioWfan]

Interesting analysis of the actual facts. Thanks, CT.

Third partyers are a non-factor. They vote for Dems, they vote for Repubs, they vote for loonies, or they stay home.......but they DON'T hold the President's feet to the fire, and they WON'T keep him from getting reelected.

Good to know.

To tell the truth, I don't really try to convince them, because their minds are slammed shut..........BUT, there might be some lurkers out there who can think straight who read the logic of what has been said, and may be persuaded. THEY are the real audience here.

[Happy2BMe]

"Our community has had a 40% growth in the hispanic community (primarily Mexican) over the past 10 years.

This growth has done much to stimulate our economy here; one that 8 or so years ago was on the bring of bankruptcy, primarily due to the moving of IBM from the area."

Using this example, one could say that by adding a 40% growth of migrant Mexican workers to the population of the cuntry will stimulate the national economy and somehow bring a renewed job market.

Hmmm....

[George W. Bush]

I have been telling some of these people that a lot of Republicans that voted for Perot wish they handn't because it taught us a horrible lesson -- we got Bill Clinton!

And Bill Clinton got us the '94 Republican House.

If Spook Daddy had been re-elected, I think the Dims would still hold Congress.

The Gingrich Revolution was the real sea-change. Clinton only had a free-run of two years and squandered his chance at nationalizing health care, his major campaign promise.

After that, we held the purse strings, not the Dims. Well, at least until the GOP decided deficit spending was good for us.

[international american]

IBM is whoring much of their IT jobs to India, Indonesia....ROTF!!

[onyx]

I love it when that charge comes out. 'You don't agree completely with me and my ideal of the true conservative so you're not a real conservative.

Exactly. Each self-proclaimed "true conservative" has his own tightly wound mindset, and they change their criteria more often than I suspect, that they change their underwear.

[Wolfstar]

Exmarine, re your post #1,256, boy oh boy, what a list of issues and grievances! There isn't a president of any party — and I do mean ANY of them, despite their rhetoric — who could govern that way and not get thrown out on his ear about as fast as the electorate could manage it.

Last I checked, this was a country of some 300,000,000 people. Among them can be found people of all ethnic backgrounds on the planet, pretty much all political persuasions, and all religious persuasions. Also, to repeat one of the core points I made on starting this thread, last I checked the title is PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not president of the Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or straights, or gays, or whites, or blacks, Latinos, or Democrats, or Republicans, or Greens, or Libertarians, or liberals, or conservatives, or women, or men, etc. He is not only the president of the people, but of the states, a function not as widely known or understood today as it was in the founders' time.

Given the enormity and variety of the populace known as "the American people," it is inevitable that any president will disappoint some segment of that populace on every issue he tackles. Now, in our era, a president has two choices in deciding how to govern: do what he thinks is right, knowing full well that somebody will be upset with everything he does, or try to minimize the number of upset people by allowing polls to drive his decisions.

Don't know about you, but I admire the former while disliking the latter.

[ChadGore]

Democrats only use "fightin' words" for their fellow Americans. Why ?

[MEG33]

LOL!

[Wolfstar]

Even though I consider myself a political geek, I haven't watched a single one of them. For me, watching Dems yammer at each other is about as exciting as watch paint dry. I know we should get to know our enemy — er, opponents — but mercy, some things are just too icky, LOL.

[GretchenEE]

America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.

My favorite line in the speech -- and we Americans understand it, but I can see how some other (French-type) nations might feel a nonexistent threat in it. They don't understand that this is not a statement that we'll invade any nation we think might be a threat.

That whole notion of a true republic just never quite took among the French. It's like they got 3/4 of the formula, stopped their research, and popped the recipe in the oven, making for a flop-cake republic.