[PetroniDE]

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and the "complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

Of that 40%, some have gone from dependency back into bondage. Those that depend on the government only are in dependency. Those that depend and vote blindly for democrats based on false promises are already in bondage.

[RebelBanker]

Based on the title, I was kind of wondering why this is in News/Activism since the subject civilization fell quite some time ago. Reading into it, I do see the point however. Interesting...

[PatrickHenry]

Bump.

[Williams]

I think the Romans missed the Liberty phase. Some conservatives love to recite this stuff. Democracy doesn't work because people vote themselves benefits. This leads to dictatorship. So we should do exactly what about this? There is no immediate sign that even the socialist countries in Europe are on the verge of despotism. They are mediocre, but they are not collapsing. I suppose we're supposed to stop all the government spending, but according to this theory that's an impossibility due to human nature.

[aristeides]

Athenian democracy can only be thought to have lasted only 200 years if you consider it to have ended when Athens lost its total independence at the end of the 4th century B.C. But in fact Athenian democratic institutions lasted much longer, through to the early 1st century B.C., when Sulla abolished them, through the period when Athens was a semi-independent satellite state, first of Macedon, then of one or the other of the Hellenistic monarchies, and finally of Rome. There was a brief oligarchic interlude in the late 4th century B.C., but there had been two oligarchic interludes during the Peloponnesian War, in the late 5th century B.C. Since democracy was restored after all these brief interludes, it makes more sense to consider Athenian democracy to have lasted from the reforms of Cleisthenes, in the late 6th century, to Sulla, in the early 1st century B.C. Altogether, that's over 400 years.

[Dead Corpse]

No such book. No such qoute.

Check Edinburgh Universities website FAQ. Tytler never said it that anyone can find an actual source for.

Let's not give freedoms enemies any more ammo than they already have.

[skip2myloo]

PING

[demnomo]

Thought this might interest you...

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Thank you very much for this article.
I read it in a newspaper and cut it out.
I could not find the clipping.
This was at least 30 years ago
when I first read it.

[lugsoul]

"Professor Olson believes the aggregate map of the territory Bush won was mostly land owned by taxpayers. Gore's territory encompassed all of the dense population centers, where a larger proportion of citizens are dependent upon government support."

Here's a stat I'd like to see - how much of the aggregate map of the territory Bush won was land owned by the Federal government?

[cicero2k]

OK, here's a take on where the United States are in terms of the above, many periods overlap:

---

From bondage to spiritual faith;
pre 1776

From spiritual faith to great courage;
1776-present

From courage to liberty;
1865-1950

From liberty to abundance,
1890-present

From abundance to complacency;
1960-present

From complacency to apathy,
1970-present

From apathy to dependence,
1990-present

From dependence back into bondage."

[LiteKeeper]

See Jim Black's When Nations Die