Let me see if I have this straight...

Yahoo News ^

[RebelDawg]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. Corporations have been replacing American engineers and software developers with cheap foreign labor for years now and all of the sudden we are worried that there are not enough Americans enrolling in the Computer Science and Engineering fields of study in college... Go figure. Perhaps if there was an incentive to enter these fields,like the possibility of actually obtaining a job after college, then maybe we wouldn't be facing this so called labor shortage. Corporations have done this to themselves but yet they have things like this to say:

"The National Science Board and a think tank of tech executives recently warned that the economic vitality of America is threatened by a lack of U.S. graduates in science and engineering."

No, kidding? You mean that when our children see their highly paid and highly educated engineer and software developer parents put out of work by corrupt corporations hiring H1-Bs and shipping jobs over seas where they can pay employees two dollars an hour that they lose any and all incentive to enter those related fields of study? Go figure!

"The bigger issue, say the NSB and CSPP, is that America may be losing ground to foreign nations that are doing a better job of educating their youth in science and engineering. As a result, they are better able to compete against American ingenuity and innovation."

Hogwash! What does better educating the youth of foreign countries have to do with competititon when we have millions of Americans whom are already educated that cannot find employment in these very same fields! It is not about foreign education it is about foreign wages. As long as corporations want to pay foreign wages for engineers and developers then America will see a shortage of graduates in these fields. It is as simpe as that.

Are we the United States of America or have we all given up and agreed to live under the rule of some supranational global corporatist government?

[looscnnn]

"And you suggest that only inner city kids aren't getting a good education in math and science."

Yes I am, I know plenty of kids that are not from the inner city that are not getting good educations in math, science, english, history, etc.

"Your ignorance is showing."

Really, how do you figure that? If you think that our kids are getting quality education from public schools, then you are the one that is ignorant.

[spunkets]

"I saw this coming back when the news broke about all the tech jobs being shipped offshore. When we ship high-paying technical jobs offshore,... "

No one is shipping the jobs offshore. The demand for the services is being met by capable folks charging less. There is no real connection of pay with job duty. The pay scale is based on supply and demand. These are things a student in HS should learn. If they're in college they shouldn't graduate if they don't know and understand it.

"what do we tell our kids to study in college in order for them to get a good job with a stable career when they get out of college?"

College should be a place where students learn how to think, do and operate in the world. It's not a place to learn fixed job skills to exist in some theoretical high paying niche forever. I don't see the point in spending all that money on college when the students expect other folks to provide them with high paying niches. The point of going to college is to enable the student to creat those niches for himself.

" I foresaw the damage that would occur if we allowed these jobs to leave the US.

There's nothing more damaging to Freedom than an artificially planned economy to protect adults that have recieved significant monies that supposedly were spent to enable them to operate in a free enterprise system.

" When we don't have high-paying, high-tech jobs to offer our kids, those departments in the colleges and universitires begain to feel the pinch and will eventually close."

Who is this we that is supposed to provide for the perpetual kids? Who sets supply and demand? They should feel the pinch and close if their operations aren't worth it.

[kegler4]

"Why do so many medical professionals in America have names I cannot pronounce?"

Part of the explanation is that Americans in general refuse to practice in inner cities or rural areas. They want cushy suburban jobs in areas close to big city amenities.

I'm not saying that's the whole explanation, but there are rural areas where not a single doctor was born in the U.S. Many of these folks are very good doctors, and without them there's be no health care in the area.

[Sloth]

More reliable job market, five extra years of income, lack of student loans, probably lower stress.

[thedugal]

millions of Americans whom are already educated

who are already educated... Always sucks making a grammatical error when discussing education ;p

[Sloth]

College should be a place where students learn how to think, do and operate in the world. It's not a place to learn fixed job skills to exist in some theoretical high paying niche forever.

Then I want my money back.

[kegler4]

"Really, how do you figure that? If you think that our kids are getting quality education from public schools, then you are the one that is ignorant."

Painting with a broad brush like this is the true ignorance. There are, in fact, public schools (look at some select schools in Norhtern Virginia) that are better than any private ones. There are also some very bad ones.

I have a daughter who will be leaving soon for college. Three years ago I talked with two college admissions officers I know personally and asked them about a private school she had just been accepted into and the public school she would go to. Both officers, one from a good state school and one from a HIGHLY competitive private university, said she would get just as good an education at the public high school (in the advanced program) and that going to the private one would not give her an admissions advantage. We decided to save the $8,000 per year for college and haven't regretted it.

[looscnnn]

"No one is shipping the jobs offshore." Really? Most of IBM's 315,000 employees are today already overseas. But now IBM is planning to move an additional 4,700 programing jobs offshore. from http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/27989/view?viewtype=best "The demand for the services is being met by capable folks charging less." Another way to say that jobs are going out of the country and to foriegners (illegal or legal). "College should be a place where students learn how to think, do and operate in the world. It's not a place to learn fixed job skills to exist in some theoretical high paying niche forever." What is all the education prior to college for? Where will they learn the skills to do the jobs? Do you really think that companies will hire someone that has no clue how to do a job, just because they know how to "operate in the world"? How can you learn to do and not have job skills? Is that like learning how to just be?

[aodell]

BTTT!

[BlackbirdSST]

Not to worry. Heck, after 6-8 more years of College, we're all gonna be Brain Surgeons or BioTechs, and whats more, it ain't gonna cost us nuttin. There must be thousand's and thousand's of people in need of Brain Surgery (I can account for a few in need of such right here on FR). I can't wait for my job to be farmed out so I can get mine. Who wants to be my first patient? Any taker's? Gotta start somewhere. Blackbird.

[looscnnn]

"More reliable job market"

How much longer before those jobs start going to foreigners (illegal and legal)?

I also went right to working after high school, but have attended some college (d*mn student loans).

"probably lower stress"

Only if you have a decent boss.

[DJtex]

The average age of an engineer in aerospace is 56.

There is a tidal wave cresting that most of us can't see. That 56 year-old engineer could be in aerospace, electronics, or communications. This is the crest of the baby boomers that will all retire in the next decade. 25% of Intel and Boeing's managers/engineers will retire over the next decade--over 10 million people in all. The next generation, Gen X or Gen Y, are much smaller and can't fill the gap.

A recent analysis said that the shame about India isn't that she's stealing so many jobs but that she can't fill this 10 million person hole with her 500,000 to 800,000 IT people. The USA has always outpaced other countries, largely thru immigration to fill our land and our prodigious vision for growth and opportunity. Europe and Japan are stagnating because, like us, their native population is having fewer children than the replacement rate--so their population is declining. For the USA, immigration has filled that gap, because it's imperative that our population grow, both for economic, and Social Security reasons.

Frankly, if we can secure more US workers far overseas where they won't invade our borders, that's better than the old messy model of integrating massive numbers of non-Americans into the melting pot (which usually takes a century or more).

[verity]

Sorry for drawing you in.

I was attempting to point out that not all jobs were being outsourced!

[Sloth]

How much longer before those jobs start going to foreigners (illegal and legal)?

I'm sure immigrants might compete for them, but there's no risk of shipping someone's residential plumbing or wiring off-shore.

Only if you have a decent boss.

I could be my own boss.

[looscnnn]

"There are, in fact, public schools (look at some select schools in Norhtern Virginia) that are better than any private ones. There are also some very bad ones."

I agree that there are some public schools that are very good, the one my kids attend is one of the best in the state. Ignorance is not facing facts and the fact is the quality of education that the majority of kids get today is not on par with what I got or my parents got. We are scoring in the middle of the pack when comparing literacy against other nations. See http://www.edweek.org/ew/newstory.cfm?slug=15pisabox.h21 for the facts.

[philetus]

Repeat after me: THE ECONOMY IS CYCLICAL!!!

Not any more

[looscnnn]

"I'm sure immigrants might compete for them, but there's no risk of shipping someone's residential plumbing or wiring off-shore."

I agree that they won't get shipped out of the country, but you might have to contend with H1 & L1 visas and illegals one day.

"I could be my own boss."

Then you would have the stress of running your own business.

[looscnnn]

"I was attempting to point out that not all jobs were being outsourced!"

Not all, but what is to stop them other than service jobs? Those can be filled by H1 & L1 visa workers and illegals.

[verity]

My emphasis was on "not all".