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Pyrolysis/Mass Spectrometry show threads from Shroud of Turin Carbon-dating different
www.Shroud.com ^ | January 2004 | Ray N. Rogers,

Posted on 01/21/2004 2:29:31 AM PST by Swordmaker

PYROLYSIS/MASS SPECTROMETRY APPLIED TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN

Raymond N. Rogers
Fellow
University of California, Los Alamos National Laboratory
Los Alamos, NM, USA
©2004 Raymond N. Rogers
All Rights Reserved

Our primary goal in undertaking pyrolysis-MS analyses on samples from the Shroud of Turin was the detection of impurities (e.g., painting materials). Most of the structural materials and probable impurities in Shroud samples were carbohydrates. We wanted to see traces of materia ls that were not carbohydrates.

The samples were run at the Midwest Center for Mass Spectrometry (MCMS), University of Nebraska-Lincoln. This is a National Science Foundation "Center of Excellence," and it ranks among the foremost facilities in the world.

Walter McCrone had ignored agreements on how the STURP samples were to be observed, and he contaminated all of our samples by sticking them to microscope slides. All of the fibers were immersed in the tape's adhesive, Joan Janney (now Joan Rogers) laboriously cleaned and prepared Shroud fibers for analysis at the MCMS.

Mass spectrometry is based on the fact that charged particles in motion have their trajectories bent by electric and/or magnetic fields. Molecules in a high vacuum can be ionized (charged) by electron impact or chemical ionization. Chemical ionization uses collisions with excited atoms or molecules to ionize the sample, and it gives a much simpler mass spectrum than electron impact. Since we desired detection sensitivity rather than high resolution, we used a machine with moderate resolution, chemical ionization, and high sensitivity. The method was sufficiently sensitive to detect traces of the low-molecular-weight fractions (oligomers) of the polyethylene bag that Prof. Luigi Gonella had used to wrap the Raes threads.

It did not detect any unexpected pyrolysis fragments that indicated any Shroud materials other than carbohydrates. That is exactly what would be expected from a piece of pure linen. This helped confirm the fact that the image was not painted.

The oldest known paintings appeared in prehistoric times (ca. 30,000 BC), and they are found in the caves of France, Spain, and Africa. They were done in natural materials, e.g., red and yellow ochre and charcoal. There is evidence that the pigments were mixed with animal fat for application to the irregular cave surfaces. Tempera painting appeared early in history. It involves powdered pigments mixed with egg, plant gums, and/or glues. Aside from fresco, tempera was the principal painting medium before the introduction of oil paints.

The Flemish brothers Hubert and Jan van Eyck are generally (probably incorrectly) credited with the invention of oil painting. Their careers are well documented between about 1422 and 1441. They normally worked on canvas that was made from either linen or a linen-cotton blend. It would be extremely unlikely that oil paints had been used to hoax the image during or before the 14th Century; however, we planned observations that would detect such materials. Oils were the favorite vehicles for pigments during the time of the 1532 fire. They could have been used in an attempt to reproduce the Shroud, if it had been totally destroyed in the fire . . .

. . .The pyrolysis-MS analyses did not detect any nitrogen-containing contaminants. This seemed rule out glair (egg white) as well as any significant microbiological deposits, confirming microchemical tests that were also made. They did not detect any of the sulfide pigments were used in antiquity, e.g., orpiment, realgar, mosaic gold, and cinnabar (vermilion, mercury sulfide, HgS). The Shroud's image had not been painted with any known vehicles and pigments. Many of the pyrolysis fragments observed by pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry would be the same products of thermal degradation whether they came from cellulose, hexose sugars, pentose sugars, or starches. However, the ratios of products can be characteristic and important . . .

The Shroud [all of the shroud except the area where the carbon-14 test material was taken - Swordmaker] is nearly pure linen. Notice that the hydroxymethylfurfural signal at m/e 126 is quite large: the furfural signal at m/e 96 is quite small.

The spectrum obtained for the Raes sample (cut in 1973 from the area adjoining the radiocarbon sample of 1988) shows absolutely no m/e 126 signal: the cellulose of the sample had not yet started to pyrolyze. There is, however, a significant m/e 96 signal: furfural was being produced at this temperature. This proves that the sample contained some pentose-sugar units. This is unique among all of the Shroud samples: no other area showed this pentose signal.

Chemical analyses have proved that the Raes samples are coated with a gum/dye/mordant system that has been used for millennia to color cloth. It is stained with a synthetic system. Apparently the intent was to make these threads look like the old, sepia yarn of the main part of the cloth . . .

. . . Maps of all of the other samples were also obtained. They all showed the same difference in product ratios: the Raes sample was unique. It was contaminated with some material that produced pentose pyrolysis products at relatively low temperatures. . .

Conclusion:
The pyrolysis/MS data confirm the identification of a gum coating on the Raes threads.

---------------------------------------

This is an extract of the information contained in the Rogers report. The entire report (6 pages) can be downloaded at the source. It is a PDF file and requires Adobe Acrobat Reader to read. Swordmaker


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Technical
KEYWORDS: carbondating; shroud; shroudofturin
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To: FSPress
Also, one thing has always puzzled me, if the body were lying down I would not expect the hair to be framing the face as shown, it would have fallen back.

I made that exact point the last time this subject thread came up.

41 posted on 01/21/2004 7:35:43 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: Graymatter
the face looks rather older than a man in his 30's

That's a VERY good point - and absolutely true - I'm surprised I've never heard anyone mention that before.

42 posted on 01/21/2004 7:39:26 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: bigcat00
A layman's question....i.e., a dumb question, perhaps, but nonetheless...Would it be possible to retrieve human DNA from the Shroud? And could it be determined where the DNA originated? I realize the Shroud has probably had many hands upon it over the centuries, but what about one of the potions with the image?

The only dumb question is the unasked one.

Some broken strands of DNA have been recovered from the blood on the Shroud. Understandably, it is extremely degraded. Your point about "many hands" is good. Who knows who's DNA has been isolated? Is it one person's or many. There was a Science Fiction novel written several years ago about Cloning Jesus from DNA from the Shroud. The key word is "Fiction."

43 posted on 01/21/2004 7:59:36 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Can we duplicate it today? If we could, it would be easy to disprove/discredit the Shroud.

That may be the ultimate test. So far, we have not been able to duplicate it in all of its features.

44 posted on 01/21/2004 8:02:14 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp; FSPress
Also, one thing has always puzzled me, if the body were lying down I would not expect the hair to be framing the face as shown, it would have fallen back. ~ FSPress

I made that exact point the last time this subject thread came up. ~ my_pointy_head_is_sharp

Perhaps the cloth tied under the beard and tied at the top of the head held his hair up?

45 posted on 01/21/2004 8:21:04 PM PST by null and void (Just my 2¢ worth...)
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To: bigcat00
Yes and yes. I don't think this has been done.
46 posted on 01/21/2004 8:35:07 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Agnes Heep
For some time now I've toyed with the idea that ionizing radiation might have produced the image.

You may have a good idea. Radiologists who have looked at the Shroud state that not only is it a negative photograph, it is also an X-RAY. To the trained eye of a radiologist the bones of the hands, forearms, teeth and skull are visible under the skin and muscle!

From
NUCLEAR MEDICINE AND ITS RELEVANCE TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN (PDF file, requires Adobe Acrobat Reader)
by August D. Accetta MD, Kenneth Lyons MD, John Jackson PhD.

"The Shroud image suggests quite strongly the presence of many skeletal details e.g. carpal and metacarpal bones, some 22 teeth, eye sockets, left femur, left and possibly right thumbs flexed under the palms of the hands, as well as soft tissue and soft tissue injuries; all presumably originating from some form of radiation emitted from the body enshrouded.

Testing done on a human volunteer (a radiologist) injected with a radioactive tracer (technicium99m) and then scanned with a collimated gamma camera exhibited the greatest likeness to the image on the shroud (minus the blood stains) of all attempts to re-create a shroudlike image. The sole exception to this was the head... the scan of the volunteers head turned out to be a caricature with no detail at all.

As I understand it, Scans (which can take up to 30 minutes each) are done at various times after injection of the tracer because the radioactive tracer infuses different parts of the body at different rates. First to be infused are the active, blood filled parts of the body, then more dense structures, and finally, the bones. The image is then constructed from these timed scans by a computer "sophisticated" computer. The head image on the test scans were washed out from too much radiation over too long a period for the scanner.

I had such a radiogram done of my heart on Monday... they did two scans seperated by about an hour... they did not need to see the bones but wanted the tissues of my heart. The "sophisticated computer" used to generate the image from the scanner they used on me was a 14 year old Macintosh IIFX!

Although not detailled in the paper, Dr. Arcetta told me at a Shroud symposium that the lack on the Shroud of some deeper details seen on the radiograms of the test subject (only structures less than ~3/8 inch deep are seen on the Shroud while the radiogram goes all the way to the core), and the inclusion of details that would have come at different infusion times (soft tissue and hard tissue nearly equally represented), lead to a startling conclusion: the varied tissues of the body covered by the shroud became radioactive at the same time... and that the radiation was some how STOPPED before the radiation deeper in the body reached the surface of the shroud.

This would explain the detailed facial image! But how do you stop the deeper radiation from radiating and exposing the deeper structures? The only answer they could come up with was to either remove the shroud from the body or REMOVE THE BODY FROM THE SHROUD . . . ALMOST INSTANTLY.

How fast does Gamma Radiation travel 3/8 of an inch????

Incidentally, the production of such an image requires a COLLIMATED CAMERA that only accepts radiation in the Z axis... how did this occur in a 1st (or 13th) Century piece of linen? The image on the Shroud is vertically collimated. There is no image of the sides, no distortion that would be caused by gamma radiation from other angles hitting the shroud in the same spot as a gamma particle in the Z axis. The Gamma Cameras cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

47 posted on 01/21/2004 9:00:09 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: RaceBannon
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes:and his face was bound about with a napkin.Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

What does "bound about" mean, Race. Think about it. It does not mean that the face was covered by the binding... it means that the face was bound around the circumference, under the jaw and over the top fo the head. Why was it bound? To keep the mouth closed in death. Ergo, this biblcal description (in Old English translation, the Greek does not have a problem with this lack of specific words for these purposes that are missing in English) is not inconsistent with the Shroud.

48 posted on 01/21/2004 9:13:09 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: Swordmaker
How fast does Gamma Radiation travel 3/8 of an inch????

About 30 pico seconds.

49 posted on 01/22/2004 7:34:11 AM PST by null and void (Just my 2¢ worth...)
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To: RaceBannon
Well, you were within two days....not too bad
50 posted on 01/22/2004 8:37:12 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Swordmaker
http://www.crc-internet.org/shroud.htm
51 posted on 01/22/2004 8:40:12 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Swordmaker
I should have added that the CRC webiste is rife with schismatic judgements about the Living Magisterium but the author of the study makes an interesting case re the Shroud
52 posted on 01/22/2004 8:42:06 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Catholicguy
:)

Actually, if you look it up, there is NO WAY it could have happened on a Friday.

You have to fulfill the 3 days and nights in the tomb reference concerning what JEsus said about Jonah.

Friday could not have done it.

Some argue for THursday. When my Pastor explained the Wednesday Crucifixion, I was stunned, but it all made sense.

I tried to write a detailing paper on it, it should show up in my home page here with a link. It does need work, someone found one mistake in it, also, I made a mistake calling the 2nd day after the First Day of Unleavened Bread a Holy Day, with my reference to the 3 days being 3 FULL HOLY DAYS according to the Jewish Calender: Passover, The Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the normal Sabbath being the 3rd day.

But, the reference to the 2nd day, it is called Holy, but it is not a formal Holy Day, so my reference is most likely wrong! :(
53 posted on 01/22/2004 1:52:55 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: Swordmaker
It seems you are stretching to demand that BOUND mean the circumference of the face. To me, Bound means it is wrapped around the entire head!

Also, if Jesus' head was wrapped like you describe, then His beard would have been TUCKED UP TIGHT against His face.

How does the image show the beard? TIGHT against the face? Or a full, flowing beard?

See?
54 posted on 01/22/2004 1:56:05 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: RaceBannon
24 hours and two seconds is all that is necessary to constitute 3 days in Hebrew Time. Even the smallest part of one day constitutes an entire day.

BTW, Jonas, of course, records an actual event (Christ "As Jonas was in the belly of the whale for three days")and traditionally 38 hours constitute the amount of time (I'm going from memory here) Jonas was in the whale.

As to the Crucifixion NOT occuring on Friday, you are still two days off.

55 posted on 01/22/2004 4:28:00 PM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Swordmaker
Another puzzlement: in the negative, where the image is realistic, his hair is white. Or blond as a Viking's! What's up with that?
(The blood stains are white in the negative because they are not part of the image; but the hair is image.)
56 posted on 01/22/2004 5:45:24 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: Catholicguy
24 hours and 2 seconds does not equal 3 days and 3 nights

Unless you use fuzzy math...like, REAL fuzzy...
57 posted on 01/22/2004 6:08:46 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: RaceBannon
It seems you are stretching to demand that BOUND mean the circumference of the face. To me, Bound means it is wrapped around the entire head!

It may mean that to you, but it doesn't mean that to many biblical and historical scholars. To BIND means to tie up... Why would anyone tie something around the face, Race? The bible does NOT say "wrapped around the entire head. It says in your King James Version (using imprecise translations from the Greek) "And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself."

As you can see it says "about his head" not "around his head" which just as easily could have been said had that been the meaning. We also see that the napkin was seen "wrapped." Why was that important, Race? Think about how you would make a large cloth into something you can bind under the jaw and over the top of the head to be tied to keep the jaw closed (we know the jaw has not gaped open because the mouth of the man on the Shroud is closed). A person making a binding would roll (or wrap) the cloth to make a thin strap-like roll of cloth to pass under the beard and over the top of the head to BIND the head and jaw together. There is no purpose in having a seperate cloth covering (or wrapping) the face when the shroud will do that quite nicely.

This binding of the jaw happens to be a fairly COMMON funeral practice in many cultures. Today, our embalmers WIRE the jaw shut and sew the eyes shut. Many ancient bodies have been found with just such an over the top binding.

Now, think of a resurrected man, climbing off of the stone shelf where he had been laying reaching up and pulling the binding holding his mouth shut off and tossing it aside. Someone who is merely stealing the body would not have to do this (although they might) but a living person wanting to open his mouth would.

Also, if Jesus' head was wrapped like you describe, then His beard would have been TUCKED UP TIGHT against His face.

No, Race, the rolled up cloth would have probably been only an inch or so in diamter and would have fit UNDER the beard and BEHIND the forelocks of hair. It would have pushed both a bit upward (from the supine positon) and pressed them more strongly against the covering shroud.

See?

58 posted on 01/22/2004 10:30:31 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: Graymatter
Another puzzlement: in the negative, where the image is realistic, his hair is white. Or blond as a Viking's! What's up with that?

First of all, Graymatter, the shroud, for all its similarities to a photograph, IS NOT A PHOTOGRAPH! It was not made with light... so it carries no light related color information.

There is no color information in the shroud except the rusty brown of the blood stains. The image itself is monochromatic... ALL portions of the image (skin, hair, beard, etc,) are the exact same tone. In fact, they are literally like little tiny dots. The areas that appear darker are merely denser areas of dots.

One other factor is that there is a correlation of shroud to body part distance with image density (This is what gives the shroud the "encoded" information for 3-dimensions to a VP8 image analyzer); the closer the body part, the denser the image. After a certain distance, there is no image.

On the negative (which is actually the positive print) the hair appears light because it was very close to the shroud and its image is dense.

59 posted on 01/22/2004 10:43:07 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: RaceBannon
Race I didn't know if you were aware of this or not, but they also have the face napkin, and it also has this same face imprinted on it, when they laid it across the shroud it was obvious that the two matched.

When the muslims were pushing north in their conquest, the shroud took one route, the face napkin another each being moved farther north ahead of the invasion.

The sundown of the day of Christs temporary burial was the Sabbath, they did a hurried job when placing him in the tomb with the intention of returning to give him a proper entombment. But he had risen.

I can't write off the evidence, I'm still in a holding pattern until all the evidence is in. But they do in fact have the face napkin as well as the shroud.
60 posted on 01/22/2004 10:59:14 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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