NASCAR: Points to change in final 10 races

ESPN ^ | 1/20/04 | AP story

[StriperSniper]

What the hell is wrong with rewarding consistancy. Keneseth earned that championship by staying in races. He didn't make stupid mistakes that put him out of races.

That only makes sense that that is what the sponsors should want to encourage to maximize product exposure. I think a steepening of the points awarded may have some merit to weight it more to top finishes, but that will also translate into more risks taken. That will have it's own consequences.

[Tandem]

I'm a big NASCAR fan and I like the plan. Kenseth may have won last year (2003) on "consistency", but he also won the most races in 2002 - so he has what it takes. He just played the game by the rules in place.
As for losing a huge points lead - how different is that than any other sport, where there is a post-season of some sort? Even wildcard teams win the occasional title and the playoff favorite doesn't always win, but they are not seen as illegitimate champions, are they? True champions know how to step up to the challenge, when it counts.

[Charlotte Corday]

The only "problem" with the 2003 season from NASCAR's point of view is that one of the heavily marketed drivers (#8,#24,#15,#20) didn't win.

[steveegg]

no one has complained over the years about the point system, while earnhardt senior and gordon where taking advantage of it, but now that a ford team has one it now becomes a problem hey?

Not just any Ford team, but a Ford team run by the Cat in the Hat; and not just any Roush team, but one that doesn't have a predominance of Southerners </sarcasm?>

[steveegg]

Ping

[steveegg]

BUT - the down side is that this favors the Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman CHARGE CHARGE CHARGE guys while penalizing the Matt Kenseth, terry Labonte type drivers that just keep the fenders on and finish races.

That's precisely why they've done it. Hard-chargers sell.

The real pisser would be if Kenseth (who isn't milquetoast, but seemed like he was with his underpowered Ford) went and took full advantage of the new headers and won the first Nextel championship to go with the last Winston Cup.

[steveegg]

"Something big" was announced a week ago; it got finalized since then and announced today.

[glock rocks]

no one has complained over the years about the point system, while earnhardt senior and gordon where taking advantage of it, but now that a ford team has one it now becomes a problem hey?

that may or may not have anything to do with the France (eeek) family's love of prestige and cash money.

Now, with that out of the way... I was wondering last night when I first read this (and I think the new system sucks) whether Dale Sr. and the King would maintain their 7 respective championships were we to go back and recalculate the old stats by the new rules. curious, huh? I've gotta go study for a few hours, but it's an interesting question in my view.

My first blush opinion is that Dale might have more than 7... and Harry Gant and Martin might have won a championship.

[tubebender]

I wonder how much influence the net works had in this lame system. These are the things that piss off drivers and cause them to form a "union". If that happens then there goes the uniqueness of Nascar Racing...

[NormsRevenge]

Just keep the beer coming.. We'll get thru this season somehow.. ;-]

Beer balloon : A Budweiser beer glass hot-air-balloon is flying over 2,391 meters high mountain Wilder Kaiser located in Tirolian Alps. (AFP/Joe Klamar)

[#3Fan]

I think a weekly 1 to 43 system would be OK. 43 points if you win, 1 point if you finish 43rd. Heck with that leading laps and leading the most laps, that just causes also-rans to stay out on cautions and courtesy passes between buddies.

But this system looks OK. Once a team knows it's going to make the top ten, the 27th race is going to be like another Daytona 500 and they may cruise through the 23rd, 24th, 25th, and 26th races to prepare big-time for the 27th. They need to make the 27th race at a prestigious track like maybe the Brickyard. Like someone else said, it'll be like the playoffs and sometime wildcard teams knock off the #1 seed. A seven race shootout. Sounds good.

[#3Fan]

My first blush opinion is that Dale might have more than 7

Yeah, Earnhardt was a strong finisher. Seems like this may favor large teams with more organization and resources. Some teams start running out of momentum around midseason and have a hard time preparing week to week.

[#3Fan]

10 race shootout, I guess.

[steveegg]

Let's review the 10 races that matter (seeing the first 26 don't anymore):

Sylvania 300 @ New Hampshire (yes, the new "Daytona 500" is a 300-miler up in Yankee country)
MBNA America 400 @ Dover
EA Sports 500 @ Talledega
Banquet 400 @ Kansas
UAW-GM Quality 500 @ Lowe's
Subway 500 @ Martinsville
Bass Pro Shops 500 @ Atlanta
Checker Auto Parts 500 @ Phoenix
Southern 500 @ Darlington (note; I'm surprised they didn't make it 12 races to really give California Speedway an advantage)
Ford 400 @ Homestead

Next item; the coasting. Instead of being just years where you have one dominatingly consistent driver (like last year), it's going to be every year among more teams. It's just going to be during the middle of the year instead of the end because "seeding" won't really matter, what with only 5 points separating each spot and each win being worth 10 points.

On sum, they simply should have made winning more valuable (I like a spread of 20-25 points between 1st and 2nd instead of the old 5 points + 5 for a lead lap or the new 10 points + 5 for a lead lap) and tweaked the lead lap bonus (don't count yellow-flag laps, perhaps require 2-3 laps led before getting it). It still rewards consistency, but it gives due reward to winning (and not just the last 10 races). It also makes winning each race matter for a contending team, not just the last 10 and just enough of the "pre-season" to make it in the top 10 (or be within 400 of the leader) after 26.

Oh well; we'll see what happens. We can contrast it with Busch, which still runs a full, meaningful schedule but otherwise adopts the new points rules.

[steveegg]

Here's some food for thought; take a look at the 2002 season. That year, your top 10 after 26 races (using either the old or the new system; adding 5 for wins and taking 5 away for poles doesn't matter in the order) were:

Sterling Marlin
Mark Martin
Jimmie Johnson
Jeff Gordon
Tony Stewart
Rusty Wallace
Bill Elliot
Matt Kenseth
Ricky Rudd
Ryan Newman

Also in the 400-point club were Dale Jarrett and Kurt Busch (11th and 12th respectively). Applying the "new math" to the last 10 races that year, the top ten looks just a "wee-bit" different from what it actually was:

1. Kurt Busch - 6563 points (had 3 wins, 1 pole in the last 10 races; ended up 3rd)
2. Tony Stewart - 6504 points (no wins/poles; was the 2002 champ)
3. Ryan Newman - 6425 points (1 win/4 poles; was 6th)
4. Mark Martin - 6372 points (no wins/poles; was 2nd)
5. Dale Jarrett - 6316 points (no wins/poles; was 9th)
6. Rusty Wallace - 6301 points (no wins/1 pole; was 7th)
7. Jeff Gordon - 6300 points (1 win/no poles; was 4th)
8. Jimmie Johnson - 6278 points (1 win/no poles; was 5th)
9. Matt Kenseth - 6246 points (1 win/no poles; was 8th)
10. Ricky Rudd - 6142 points (no wins/poles; was 10th)
11. Bill Elliot - 5933 points (no wins/poles; was 13th behind Dale Earnhardt Jr and Jeff Burton)
12. Sterling Marlin - 5304 points (no wins/poles; was 18th behind Earnhardt, Jeff Burton, Elliot, Michael Waltrip, Ricky Craven, Bobby Labonte and Jeff Green after a crash cut his season short)

With results like that (and the yellow-flag lottery; we have to get DW and company to use that term), you can only wonder if the "third-generation" curse is in the midst of striking NASCAR.

[steveegg]

I wonder how much influence the net works had in this lame system.

Fox had none because it makes all their races that much less "interesting" (depending on the year, they leave after the 17th or 18th race, long before the rush for the top 10/"400-point club" heats up). It's all NBC/TNT (did anyone mention that TNT runs NASCAR.com?).

These are the things that piss off drivers and cause them to form a "union". If that happens then there goes the uniqueness of Nascar Racing...

Or worse, gets the owners riled up enough to start their own series (does CART ring a bell?).

[glock rocks]

Interesting analysis. Thanks.

I'll bet the Fox guys come up with some more as they argue it out. I'm not aginst change as such... I just think the new points system sucks, and yes, tubebender, I'm sure nbc had a great deal of influence here.

[Wolfie]

Great, so now NASCAR has an exhibition season too.

[steveegg]

Great, so now NASCAR has an exhibition season too.

And unlike other sports, its biggest races (Daytona 500, Brickyard 400, Firecracker 400, World 600, the first 'Dega race) are part of it.

[#3Fan]

Race #27 is New Hampshire?! Blah! They need to move the Brickyard to that date! Or maybe Charlotte. They have the Brickyard in one of the "cruising" races now. I don't like having Talladega in the playoffs either (even though that will help Dale Jr presumably), hate to see a contender taken out in in the big one in such a short season. At least the other wreckfest Bristol isn't in there. I love races at Talladega and Bristol, they are two of my favorite tracks to watch, but not good tracks to determine champions because of the wrecks. They're OK for 30-some race seasons, but not for ten race seasons.