Like I said, the Patriot Act is harmless. Just as before the Patriot Act was ever penned, law enforcement still has to go to the judge for their warrant.
Oh gee, like, wow man, the Sky is Falling!
Posted on 01/17/2004 10:01:59 AM PST by Sabertooth
Debate rages, and will through 2004, about President Bush’s “not an Amnesty” Amnesty proposal to legalize the 8 to 12 million Illegal Aliens his Administration has said are currently here in our country.
Amnesty proponents and enablers uniformly offer only three solutions to the Illegal Alien problem.
1. Coexistence: Just maintain the status quo through inaction.
2. Amnesty: This is appeasement, and surrender.
3. Xenophobia: Build a police state.
That’s a pretty thin list, and as we’ll see, not an accurate one. Its exclusive presentation amounts to a fallacy of False Dilemma.
It should be noted that Amnesty is a nearly inevitable consequence of Coexistence. Not surprisingly, therefore, Amnesty proponents commonly raise the specter of Xenophobia so that they can paint dark insinuations and distract attention from the symbiosis of their appeasement with the failed policy of Coexistence. Calling other people Nazis is a neat way of cloaking one’s own kinship with Neville Chamberlain.
If we had accepted the same false dilemma in the War on Terror, we'd never have fought it. We'd be the same as Democrats, who’ve made a willingness to appease a party litmus test.
The War on Terror didn’t begin on September 11th, 2001, it began with the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, and was conducted against us by Al Qaeda and our enemies all throughout the 1990s. President Clinton, however, opted not to take the fight to the enemy, and so the Clintonistas held throughout the 90s that terrorism was an intractable problem with which we'd just have to Coexist , and made their policies accordingly. Not surprisingly, when President Clinton had an opportunity to take Osama bin Laden into custody, he lacked the courage to do so. Clinton’s spine also failed him on three occasions where our Special Forces were in position to kill bin Laden. By the end of his Presidency, Clinton’s appeasement of terror was in full bloom; visits from uber-terrorist Yassir Arafat were a source of pride to him, and ultimately, he even granted pardons to Puerto Rican terrorists.
Pardons and clemencies, like Amnesties, absolve wrongdoers of further responsibility for past crimes. When a policy of Coexistence with wrongdoing is pursued long enough, absolution of wrongdoing will eventually become part of the negotiation to make the craven failure to confront it appear magnanimous.
On September 11th, 2001, the War on Terror changed. America didn't accept the false dilemma of Coexistence, Appeasement, or Xenophobia. Coexistence had failed, and with it went any thought of absolution for wrongdoing. Clintonian appeasement was over. Xenophobic notions of “kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out,” and “nuke Mecca” were also ruled out, because we’re Americans, and hold ourselves to higher standards of morality and ingenuity.
What then, of the fallacy presented in the false dilemma of the Coexistence / Amnesty / Xenophobia triad?
We rightfully threw it on the ash heap of History.
We took a fourth, Asymmetric approach to the Terrorists, and are now reaping the benefits. After wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, suddenly Libya is turning over their WMD programs without a shot being fired; Iran is on the bubble and contemplating the same thing; Syria and the PLA are increasingly isolated; and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are finally getting the message that coddling Al Qaeda is a losing proposition. Early on in the WoT, it was understood that victory is a policy which reaps a sweet harvest. While the investment in the initial successes was relatively high, they generated a momentum that is making inexpensive windfalls of subsequent victories.
Yet none of this could have happened if we’d followed the appeasement tendencies of the Democrats. In ten years, we’d have been looking at a Middle East full of North Koreas, which was the crown jewel of President Clinton’s failed policy of Coexistence and appeasement.
Naturally, being innate appeasers, the Democrats and Clinton also have pursued Coexistence and Amnesty in dealing with the problem of the millions of Illegal Aliens currently living in our country. Three times in the 1990s, Clinton signed legislation enabling Section 245(i) of the Immigration and Naturalization Code, thereby granting Amnesties to more than a million Illegals Aliens (twice with at GOP House and Senate). Appeasement failed, of course, as it must, and by the end of Clinton’s eight years, there were millions more Illegals than when he started.
Now we have a Republican Administration, as well as a GOP House and Senate. The Clintonian policies of Coexistence with and Amnesties for Illegal Aliens have clearly failed. So, President Bush has taken the initiative and offered an “Immigration Reform” proposal that would legalize not just a million Illegals, as Clinton did, but millions of them. Rather than turning from the failed Clinton policies, President Bush is embracing an even more radical version of them.
So now, pro-Amnesty Republicans and their enablers are offering the same solutions on Illegals as the Democrats did: Amnesty (even though they split hairs and pretend otherwise. They are attempting to frame the debate with the same false dilemma that the Democrats did with the War on Terror: Coexistence, Amnesty/appeasement, and Xenophobia.
Where is the fourth option, Asymmetry? It has worked so well in the WoT; why are we not exploring Asymmetric solutions to the Illegal Alien problem?
We can effectively solve much of the Illegal Alien problem, without Amnesty, if we apply a similar, Asymmetric approach to that of the War on Terror. Obviously, it's not necessary or moral to conduct a war against Illegals, but by applying systematic pressure to all of the factors that encourage the Illegals to violate our laws and sovereignty, we can win early victories that generate and sustain a momentum whereby the problem starts to solve itself.
The key is to get the Illegals to leave our country on their own initiative.
There are plenty of steps we can take to do this.
Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty
Not only is encouragement of Illegal Alien self-deportation humane and cost effective, there has already been considerable success in this regard with Pakistani Illegals.
25% of Pakistani Illegal Aliens Deported Themselves since 2001 -
Facts against the Bush Amnesty
If we project that modest 25% self-deportation rate of the Pakistani Illegals onto the the 8 to 12 million Illegals that DHS Secretary Tom Ridge concedes are here, we’re talking about 2 to 3 million fewer Illegals in a short period of time. However, the Pakistani Illegals self-deported in response to a set of incentives that was far from comprehensive. A much higher rate of self-deportation of Illegals is certainly feasible, if we simply roll up our sleeves and get on with it.
Historian Victor Davis Hanson recently said:
We never would have had this conversation [about Illegal Aliens] in 1950. There was no conversation about a wall or a fence. It was very simple: If you came across the border illegally, you were deported. The employer was not to hire people who were here illegally. It's very simple to do, but it just requires a degree of courage.
Paradise Lost? (Victor Davis Hanson comments on Bush's immigration proposal)
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (FR link) - January 10, 2004
Bill Steigerwald with Victor Davis Hanson
As with the War on Terror, so too with the Illegal Aliens; it’s now time to throw the false dilemma of Coexistence, Amnesty, or Xenophobia on the ash heap of History. Amnesty failed under Presidents Reagan and Clinton, and will fail under President Bush if it’s attempted.
Rewards for lawbreaking beget more lawbreaking.
Diligent enforcement of our immigration laws succeeded in the 1950s, and would again; but we would be better served by a more humane, Asymmetric approach today, whereby relatively few deportations would result in a great many self-deportations of Illegal Aliens.
When those who man the front lines tells you how it is, we should have the sense to listen.
--Boot Hill
BUMP!
--Boot Hill
Like I said, the Patriot Act is harmless. Just as before the Patriot Act was ever penned, law enforcement still has to go to the judge for their warrant.
Oh gee, like, wow man, the Sky is Falling!
Yes, they could be fined, but I don't think the SSA wants to. They know who are using fake SSN's now and won't share that info with the immigration authorities.
I wish the idiots in Washington would have the sense to listen.
Anyhow, thanks.
I surmise: Because then they didnt have to suffer the indignities of detention and the inconveniences of being deported to a place they were unfamiliar with. (ie Veracruz, Monterrey).
The bottom line is that in the 1950s, deportation was tried and deportation worked, and 10 years later, illegal immigration was at low levels. ONly after the 1965 immigration law did illegal immigration ramp up again.
We will need to repeal the 1965 immigration law if we want to fix illegal immigration.
I suppose people are going to have slightly diffent goals concerning immigration. Mine is to reduce illegal immigration to the lowest level that is workable. I don't want the current illegals to gain either citizenship or green cards ahead of those who did things legally. And I think the current illegals should pay some price for having violated the law. Basically I'm open to suggestions provided we stick to those principles.
There have been several proposals for penalties on those currently here illegally that fall short of deporting them. There have been suggestions that they pay a fine, or that they get a special visa that delays for several years their option to get legal permanent residence. Earlier in this thread reluctantwarrior suggested allowing them to apply for guest worker visas, provided they go back to their home country to do so.
The bottom line for me is that to have a solution that's politically possible I think we have to have options short of deporting and barring all of today's illegals.
Thanks for tying a lot of this stuff together. If you expand and publish it please consider including the myriad of abuses we've tolerated (often unknowingly prior to the elimination of the FCC "Fairness Doctrine" freeing open discussion).
Such things as activist courts; "citizens lawsuits" to force (often willing, cooperating, and financing the lawsuits behind the scenes) government agencies to abrogate property rights; hyphenated groups' advocacy organizations whose aim is to enhance foreign governments while ostensibly representing hyphenated "Americans," an example IMO is India, www.usindiafriendship.net and www.usinpac.com; obvious front organizations such as the National Lawyers Guild; and numerous others who have moved "beyond being Americans."
This is the war within the WoT. Some are calling it the cold civil war.
I'm sure Freepers could compile a list a mile long. Of course such a tome runs the risk of being too much but all these things are part of the cacophony that has awakened this "greatest generation's" sleeping giant. Now if the giant just had a leader.
Please elaborate.
I read your earlier posts (and I have heard of the Cato Institute). I did not view the video that you linked to, and I gather I would have seen the misrepresentation you refer to exhibited there. I'll take your word for it that it happened.
That is a great reminder and worth repeating. I believe there was a program for "willing workers" and "willing employers" at the time called the bracero program. yet ILLEGALS still came.
We had leaders of stature in those days, regardless of the many options outlined none will be enforced today. Period.
To be fair to the leaders of today the problem is there are too many hyphenated groups with too much power for the government to do much of anything. There are the likes of the ACLU pukes, activist courts, anti-"profiling" and "hate crime" laws, and most of all, $$$$$$$ for puke politicians.
I'd love to see Dwight Eisenhower reaction to these pipsqueaks.
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