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Firefighters refuse to battle blaze, but watch
Tribune Chronicle ^ | 1/16/04 | JOHN GRANT EMEIGH

Posted on 01/16/2004 4:32:24 PM PST by mylife

Firefighters refuse to battle blaze, but watch

By JOHN GRANT EMEIGH

Tribune Chronicle

McKINLEY HEIGHTS - Firefighters from Niles watched a Weathersfield house burn for about 20 minutes Thursday afternoon without attempting to put it out because the fire occurred outside the city limits. Jason Radcliff said most of the items in his home at 2782 Robbins Ave. may have been saved if the Niles firefighters had acted immediately.

Instead, the Niles crew waited for the Weathersfield Fire Department to come and put out the blaze. Radcliff said Niles firefighters had three firetrucks at the scene and could have easily put out the fire.

''You don't just sit there and watch someone's livelihood burn,'' Radcliff said.

Capt. Randy Ciminero of the Niles Fire Department confirmed his firefighters mistakenly were dispatched to the scene because the fire originally was thought to have been in Niles.

Since the fire was not in the city's jurisdiction, Ciminero said his firefighters just waited to make sure no one was injured.

Radcliff, whose house was no more than 200 yards from Niles city limits, was angry the Niles firefighters didn't help.

''Don't call yourself a firefighter if you do something like that,'' he said.

The Niles firefighters said they would have done something if there was someone trapped in the house, but Ciminero said his department was not obligated to fight the fire.

Ciminero said he didn't want his firefighters tied up with this fire when they could have been called out to a fire in Niles.

''I'm paid by the city of Niles. I'm paid to protect the property of the people of Niles,'' he said.

Radcliff, who has rented the house for the past five years, said the fire was contained to one room when Niles firefighters arrived. However, the fire spread by the time firefighters from the Weathersfield station arrived.

It takes Weathersfield firefighters longer to respond to fires because it only has part-time firefighters who usually are not at the station when called.

The Niles department was dispatched to the fire because the 911 call was made from a cell phone, and all cell phone calls go to the Ohio State Highway Patrol in Southington. The patrol dispatcher mistakenly notified the Niles department about the fire because Robbins Avenue also runs through Niles.

Firefighters from Weathersfield's Station No. 40, who were eventually called about 1:10 p.m., put out the fire. An official from the Weathersfield department said the fire was contained to a room and part of the attic.

The cause of the fire was undetermined, the Fire Department reported.

One Weathersfield firefighter was taken to a local hospital after suffering breathing problems and was treated and released that day.

Weathersfield Fire Chief Randall Pugh was not available for comment.

Radcliff said he and his fiancee and their three children will have to stay in a hotel.

jemeigh@tribune-chronicle.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: fire; firefighters; followingrules; idiots; notmyjobman; ohio; union; youngstown
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To: RightWhale
By e911 you mean cellular?

you're absolutely correct. It should be the most accurate considering how it employs sattelite triangulation to find you.

Human error is still the missing link in eliminating error, and they will happen.

But that doesn't excuse those feckers from putting out a fire. I just can't believe that was a top-down order to not put it out.

21 posted on 01/16/2004 4:54:31 PM PST by PurVirgo (Here's a tip - Never weedeat the dog pen with your mouth open)
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To: mylife
LOL - if only it was that easy. Chevron's policy against bringing a hundgun to work would have prevented me from shooting the bastard too
22 posted on 01/16/2004 4:55:30 PM PST by PurVirgo (Here's a tip - Never weedeat the dog pen with your mouth open)
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To: mylife
Im from this area, I'll bet a buck that these guys are union.

This probab;y is not a union issue. It's probably because of a lack of a mutual aid agreement between the two fire departments. In Washington State, these agreements provide such broad-ranging coverage that this type of incident could never happen. Fire fighters would respond and take action even if the call came from two cities away.

23 posted on 01/16/2004 4:57:20 PM PST by scooter2
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To: PurVirgo
I just can't believe that was a top-down order to not put it out.

Yes, there is. This has been settled. First time I saw such a thing was at least 20 years ago, and it was a beaut. Turned out that house was in no fire district at all. All his neighbors were, but district boundary lines went around. Everyone was surprised, and there was much reading of legal descriptions, but the decision stood.

24 posted on 01/16/2004 4:58:17 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Drango
These firefighters are an insult to the brave NY 9/11 firefighters.

No they're not. No fire department puts out fires outside their Jurisdiction. Fire fighting is extremely dangerous. No one demands that fire fighters risk their lives when it's not their responsibility. Remember these's guys made sure everyone was safe. But it's not their job to risk their lives to protect property outside their jurisdiction. And the "brave NY 9/11 firefighters" would have done exactly the same thing. Because the Firefighters on 9/11 didn't enter those towers to protect someone's D$@% property. They enter to save lives and you are wrong to compare these two events.

25 posted on 01/16/2004 4:59:38 PM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: RightWhale
The city firefighters are not allowed to fight fires outside their district unless so directed since they must be ready to respond to an emergency within their district.

Fails the laugh test: so they just stand around and watch it burn, doing nothing except blocking the way for other fire trucks?

Behold the power of government services: it's not only not in my job description (the union response) but it's legally prohibited for me to assist you (the government response). So, I'll just stand around, maybe order a pizza or some popcorn and watch. Say, there's a fire here; anyone bring marshmallows?

26 posted on 01/16/2004 5:03:20 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: scooter2
t's probably because of a lack of a mutual aid agreement between the two fire departments.

You got that right. Where was the pre-planning for such an event.

27 posted on 01/16/2004 5:03:41 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: RightWhale
easy killer - I was only 3 yrs old when that happened.

and I've only cared about issues like this for only 5-6yrs now

28 posted on 01/16/2004 5:04:41 PM PST by PurVirgo (Here's a tip - Never weedeat the dog pen with your mouth open)
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To: RightWhale
I hope his tax bill was zero, otherwise he was paying for stuff he wasn't getting.
29 posted on 01/16/2004 5:05:01 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: mylife
I know somewhere I lived (can't recall exactly where) they had a policy that they would put out the fire but would bill the owner for the service if it was outside their area.
30 posted on 01/16/2004 5:05:02 PM PST by yarddog
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To: coloradan
so they just stand around and watch it burn

Yes, and make sure the fire doesn't spread to property in their district of responsibility. Nobody is laughing.

31 posted on 01/16/2004 5:05:55 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Sci Fi Guy
No they're not. No fire department puts out fires outside their Jurisdiction.

Where did you hear that. I used to do it all the time. First truck in was always the attack pumper...regardless of who arrived first.

32 posted on 01/16/2004 5:06:02 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: bert
I guess maybe it would haave been a good thing to be in the city and pay the taxes. Life is a bout choices and responsibility for those choices.

BULL

The wrong fire department was dispatched because they used a cell phone and the dispatcher made a mistake. This wasn't a choice, it was a tragic error. I could see your point if the fire department that had jurisdiction was correctly dispatched and they bungled the job, but that isn't the case. A mistake was made by the dispatcher and the firefighters had an obligation to at least start fighting the fire until the correct department arrived. This is a travesty.

These sort of petty boundary squabbles are common and wrong. I used to be a firefighter, and we NEVER would have stood by and watched. Mutual aid agreements are a necessity to avoid such occurrances. But even in the absence of an agreement, they should have just done the job they were mistakenly called by another authority to do and argued about it later. I'm certain the other department would have reciprocated if a call had come in when they were engaged "out of their territory".

33 posted on 01/16/2004 5:07:35 PM PST by SteamShovel
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To: RightWhale
Yes, and make sure the fire doesn't spread to property in their district of responsibility.

They could make sure it wouldn't spread by putting it out.

34 posted on 01/16/2004 5:08:16 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: coloradan

"I'm sorry, sir, could you repeat that credit card number and expiration date again? And for verification purposes, please state the billing zipcode and the last four digits of your social security number."

35 posted on 01/16/2004 5:08:35 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
It works for car insurance, burglar alarm company, banker, your AAA towing company and your cell phone company. At least it works for mine. Do you get all of these services from government too?

Compare that kind of service to that received from social services, getting a driver's license, or going to court. (Sorry, docket's full for two years.)

36 posted on 01/16/2004 5:11:18 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: SteamShovel
they should have just done the job they were mistakenly called by another authority to do and argued about it later

I never had a homeowner complain because my engine company was a block or two outside our jurisdiction.

37 posted on 01/16/2004 5:11:21 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: mylife
''You don't just sit there and watch someone's livelihood burn,'' Radcliff said.

Actually firefighters often sit there and watch someone's livelihood burn. When it's too dangerous, or as in this case outside their jurisdiction.

Radcliff wants these guys to risk their lives to protect his property. But he does not want to pay for the fire department. He decided to live where they have a volunteer fire department. And I'm sure he was happy to pay less in taxes for it. Well he got what he paid for.

38 posted on 01/16/2004 5:13:13 PM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: coloradan
I hope his tax bill was zero, otherwise he was paying for stuff he wasn't getting.

Well, yeah. That does happen, too. Municipal GIS is weeding out those problems and there were a lot like that before GIS.

39 posted on 01/16/2004 5:13:20 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: mylife
A classic case of, "you get what you pay for". There are advantages to living in an unincorporated area. This is one of the disadvantages
40 posted on 01/16/2004 5:14:08 PM PST by Damagro
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