[Tolik]

Victor Davis Hanson moral clarity huge BUMP  [please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Victor Davis Hanson articles]

If you want to bookmark his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-victordavishanson/browse

His NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

[Renfield]

He's the best. I find myself e-mailing his columns to people all over the world.

[FreedomPoster]

Another great column from VDH, but he needs an editor who's paying attention. Lobster pot? I think more would immediately grasp the metaphor with "crab pot". There are few of either in inland CA, I presume (VDH's home).

And at the end, we have:

"The latter (who turned Sherman and Grant lose) would maintain that we are a forgiving sort, who prefer restored rather than beaten people as our friends."

This is that rare exception where "lose" should have been "loose", as opposed to the converse. Again, need for an editor.

[wayoverontheright]

The realization that we have not yet evolved past these baser impulses is critical in this war, since victory entails not merely the military defeat of our often tribal adversaries, but a careful combination of humiliating enemies while allowing credit to go to envious allies and the once defeated.

Humiliation. The sight of the dissheveled Saddam perhaps? The humiliation factor could not have been achieved without the toppling of the region's biggest bully, IMHO.

In his books, VDH often points out that capitulation of allied enemies often takes the form of realignment of power. What we are witnessing in Lybia, Syria, Iran, etc. is just that, and it always FOLLOWS the humiliation.

[Gefreiter]

Professor Hanson hits some good points and, as always, with interesting turns of phrase. His theme about pride, though, is one of special interest to me.

It is seemingly impossible for an Arab in the media to discuss a point of policy- America's, Israel's, Arafat's, Osama's, whatever- without mentioning the words "pride,", "humiliation", or "dignity", and the perceived wounding or restoration of them.

I am very interested to learn more about this phenomenon, where the perception of humiliation or emasculation drives Arabic speakers to do such despicable things. Especially because perception is all in your head. What is the source of this feeling? Why is it so prevalent? Why do people believe it and perpetuate it?

Similarly, why can't they open a business, or send their children to a respectable school, or work hard and have a good family, or otherwise better their own lives, and draw pride from those things, instead of their entire self image based around the perception of the Arab nation's lack of military or cultural power?

If anyone could direct me to any works (English only please- maybe auf Deutsch if not too dense) on the topic of Arab pride, and its relationship to policy and international relations, I would be thankful.

[headsonpikes]

bump.

[68skylark]

Great article.

This reminds me of something I read about the Iraq war that really made me laugh. It seems that our psych ops troops understood something about Arab pride, so they'd drive Humvees with loudspeakers praising Iraqi males, asking them to stay at home during the invasion, and saying they will be important to building a free Iraq in the future. They also had a message for the irregular militia men -- saying they were impotent. The report I read said this enraged the militia fighters so much they'd come out shooting from behind their cover, where our combat forces could quickly send them on to the next world.

Does anyone else remember reading a news report like this?

[Gritty]

BTTT for one of our finest historians.

[Valin]

Where Americans see skill and subtlety in taking out Saddam Hussein and a costly effort to liberate a people, many Iraqis, even as they taste freedom, drive new cars, and see things improve, talk instead of humiliation, hurt pride, or anger at their own impotence — whether whining over the morticians' make-up work on Qusay, or ashamed about Saddam's pathetic televised dental examination. Iraqis scream on camera that we should not stay another minute, but even more often whisper that we better not leave yet.

Iraqi poll results regarding Saddam Hussein's capture
These polls conducted by the Iraqi Center for Research and Strategic Studies (ICRSS) were published in Azzaman daily Baghdad edition two days ago. I searched the web to see if they had a website but unfortunately they don't seem to have one yet so I took the liberty to translate and publish the results here.

Dr. Sa'dun Al-Dulaymi head of the ICRSS stated that the surveys were carried out in eight major Iraqi cities and that a thousand Iraqis participated. Here are the complete results.

Distribution percentage of participants:
Baghdad 32%
Arbil 15%
Diyala 7%
Basrah 15%
Karbala 10%
Mosul 11%
Ramadi 6%
Faluja 4%

Gender of participants:
Male 81%
Female 19%

Education:
Illiterate 9%
Primary 20%
Intermediate 18%
Secondary 19%
Bachelor degree 15%
Associate degree 18%
Professional degree 1%

1)What was your reaction to Saddam Hussein's capture?

Overwhelming joy 59%
Shock and confusion 20%
Sadness 16%
None of my concern 5%

2)Are you personally convinced that it was really Saddam who was captured?

Yes 86.9%
No 13.1%

3)Do you think that Saddam deserves a fair trial?

Yes 84%
No 16%

4)Do you prefer that Saddam be tried by:

An Iraqi court? 60%
An Iraqi court with International advisors? 15%
An International court of justice? 25%

5)What is the fair judgement you believe Saddam deserves?

Execution 56%
Imprisonment 25%
Clemency 19%

6)What do you think a speedy trial of Saddam would achieve?

It would prevent an internal schism or conflict 45%
It would ensure security and stability 30%
It would increase chaos 14%
It would help end the occupation 10%
Others 1%

7)How do you think Saddam's capture would affect the resistance?

Decrease resistance activities 53%
Increase resistance activities 27%
Cessation of resistance 20%

8)How do you see Saddam's capture?

He surrendered without resistance 52.4%
He was drugged or anaesthetized 31.5%
He was taken by surprise 12.6%
Others 3.4%

9)Which is more important to you?

Providing security 54.9%
Providing fuel 35.8%
Saddam's capture 34.4%
Providing electricity 28.8%
Improving the economic situation 5.3%

10)Do you agree that those who suffered from the regime should be compensated?

Yes 12%
No 88%

11)How do you consider Saddam's policies and actions on the following issues:

A)The Iraq-Iran war:

Crime 77%
Justified action 23%

B)Invading Kuwait:

Crime 79%
Justified action 21%

C)Attacking Israel in 1991:

Crime 18%
Justified action 82%

D)Mass graves:

Crime 81%
Justified action 19%

E)Gasing the Kurds:

Crime 87%
Justified action 13%

F)Forced deportation:

Crime 82%
Justified action 18%

G)Killing religious and national figures:

Crime 83%
Justified action 17%


For more information about ICRSS and the survey you can email icrss@hotmail.com


# posted by zeyad : 12/30/2003 08:21:03 PM
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2003_12_01_healingiraq_archive.html

[Billthedrill]

Great post, and thanks for making it.

The world thought our weak response to past Iranian hostage-taking, the abrupt pull-out from Vietnam, and the insanely stupid withdrawal from Lebanon were catastrophic signs of American weakness as well as dangerous concessions that might encourage our enemies' boldness. And they were absolutely right.

We have paid a hundred times over for these actions, and in large measure we still are. What Vietnam taught an entire generation of anti-American activists is that an incessant campaign in the media and on campus can effect the foreign policy of a country whose military predominance makes a direct influence by force impossible.

I'd add the example of Somalia to this sad list. And this isn't a partisan issue, or shouldn't be - the administrations responsible for these responses in Vietnam, Iran, Lebanon, and Somalia, were the Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and Clinton administrations, respectively. Two Democratic, two Republican. To bring this issue into partisan politics in the face of this evidence is shortsighted and foolish. It makes for lovely demagoguery, and that's about it.

[Utah Girl]

Victor Davis Hanson ping

[philetus]

It's not about pride.It's all about power.