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To: af_vet_1981
would certainly have hung George Washington

Well, I suppose I asked for that. True of course ("Why doth treason never prosper?") but I do believe that General Washington (nor, for that matter, the commanders and staff of the Haganah in '48) did not ever murder diplomats to make a political point. Washington conducted his war according to a strict sense of propriety (including the hanging of John André, who by the standards of the day had it coming).

If you want a list of Israeli spies check the Stephen Green story [which has a sidebar on 40 years of anti-American espionage by Israel] and the [withdrawn] DOD memo in my other post. I'm also not aware of any particular targeting of Jews for CI scrutiny, although the DOD memo suggested it [idiotic idea, which is why the memo was withdrawn]. The fact is, quite a number of spies of many ethnicities have spied for nations with whom they have an ethnic connexion. And quite a few have spied for nations with whom they have nothing in common at all.

All you have to do is look at the ethnicity of authors of pro- and ant-Israel letters to realise that Jewish heritage doesn't automatically equal love for Israel, let alone to the point that one would subordinate his love for his own country. Jeez, I would think we were past this Dreyfus era distrust of one ethnic group (and a group that has contributed far more to this country than their numbers warrant).

For a list of spies, overall, see here [defence security service - only up to date through 99, and has some errors].

Here is a 1997 story on an FBI attempt to expose an Israeli spy. CNN. (I gotta say, to find stories like this on the web you have to sort through a jungle of hate-filled fringe sites. Google "Israeli spies" to see what I mean. I'm starting to see why some Jews and their friends get paranoid -- lotsa enemies out there).

To illustrate some of the more recent stuff, here is Daniel Pipes pointing another "Israeli Spy" scandal up as a hoax. And here is Newsmax which appears to be swallowing the same story. Of the two, my experience with Pipes is far more positive.

Here's some stereotyping for you. Maybe because it's duty that requires a quick mind, and Jews tend to be smarter than average Americans, there are a lot of Jews in intelligence work; I've known hundreds of them, and only wish I could tell the stories of the things they have done for America. All Americans would be proud. And these guys and girls, they hate Pollard more than anybody. Except maybe that guy who worked with him in Naval Intelligence -- he really hates him.

I'm aware that the haters single out the Rosenbergs (ptui!) and other spies, and try to suggest that Jews have no loyalty. Anybody with an ounce of sense knows that that's bullshit; you might as well say that Pitts and Pelton and Howard and Nicholson were all spies, therefore we can't trust guys with WASP names. The way to catch spies is by observing the behaviour of individuals, not people's membership in groups!

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

42 posted on 01/15/2004 7:15:23 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Criminal Number 18F
I'm not aware of any other spy for Israel but have read some of the other cases. Just consider this one for a moment with my points in bold.

1996 – ROBERT STEPHAN LIPKA, former National Security Agency staff member, was taken into custody on February 23 at his home in Millersville, Pennsylvania, and charged with committing espionage while workings as a communications clerk from 1964 to 1967. While an Army enlisted man from age 19 to 22, Lipka worked in the NSA central communications room and reportedly provided the KGB with a constant stream of highly classified reports. He is believed to have caused extensive damage to US intelligence collection activities.

According to James Bamford of the Los Angeles Times, since Lipka provided Top Secret information to the KGB during the war in Vietnam, he may have been responsible for the loss of American lives. He is said to have used dead drops along the C&O Canal near the Potomac River and was paid between $500 and $1000 per delivery. Lipka left the NSA in 1967 and stopped meeting with his KGB handlers in 1974.

He became a suspect in 1993 as a result of information believed to have been provided to the FBI by his ex-wife. His role in espionage was confirmed by FBI agents posing as Russian contacts. According to an FBI spokesman, while the government was aware of a major security breach in the 1960s, it had not been able to identify Lipka as a suspect until it had received the additional information. It is believed that Lipka is the young soldier described in the autobiography of former KGB major general Kalugin who tells of a walk-in in the mid-1960s who was interested in money. According to Kalugin, the documents which the soldier passed included Top Secret NSA reports to the White House and copies of communications on US troop movements around the world.

The price reportedly paid by the Soviets during the period of his betrayal was $27,000. On 23 May 1997, Robert Lipka pleaded guilty to one count of espionage in exchange for a jail term of no more than 18 years. On 24 September, he was sentenced to serve a term of 18 years in Federal prison.

You don't read many articles about Lipka or any other American spy very often. I hadn't read his story for awhile. You don't hear the mobs shouting for his crucifixion. It's always about Pollard, the Jew. Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

Even if everything Jonathan Pollard said in his defense were true, he still had two other branches of the US Government he could have gone to without betraying the trust of the American people.

I'm also not aware of any particular targeting of Jews for CI scrutiny,

You may not be aware of it.

Here's some stereotyping for you. Maybe because it's duty that requires a quick mind, and Jews tend to be smarter than average Americans, there are a lot of Jews in intelligence work; I've known hundreds of them, and only wish I could tell the stories of the things they have done for America. All Americans would be proud. And these guys and girls, they hate Pollard more than anybody. Except maybe that guy who worked with him in Naval Intelligence -- he really hates him.

That should read "All Americans should be proud." Unfortunately, as you already know, there are some Americans whose hearts are infected by a hatred of Israel and Jews. They soak up the teaching of their Arab asathitha.

45 posted on 01/15/2004 7:38:17 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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