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To: Criminal Number 18F
former Stern Gang terrorist Yitzhak Shamir

This type of language is typical of Islamic terrorists and their neoNazi confederates.

18 posted on 01/15/2004 4:06:27 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
My my, lots of questions. Alright, I have lots of answers.

  1. Which Israelis are you referring to ?

    The Israeli government, its intelligence agencies, and lots of good Israelis who think the US should cut Pollard a break for spying for what is basically a good country and a dependable American ally. I disagree with that particular position -- although I generally support Israel and understand that in the grand scheme of things they are usually the good guys.

  2. Who do you think their other agents in the US military and intelligence agencies are ?

    Unfortunately, they are many. Before Pollard, they were usually not prosecuted (and after Pollard as well -- they were normally just removed from access, made to resign commissions, etc). If you are suggesting that I think they are mostly Jewish, I don't think they are. They are mostly greedy, and disloyal, which are human failings that know no race or religion.

    The reason that Israeli intelligence needs to spy on us, is that they know that we have information that we don't share with them, which might be very important to the survival and well-being of their country and their people. You might say that they have a fiduciary duty to do this, as do other sovereign nations.

    Given that they have an imperative to spy, they must also be seen by their active spies to be energetic and committed to the cause of captured spies... if they just let Pollard rot, it would be discouraging to any present or future Pollards, and they might need such men. That was the meaning of my post about the "Israelis" (whom I should have defined more precisely and "their other agents."

    Spies for the Israelis are not necessarily Jews (Pollard, in fact, was totally secularized and assimilated, and had no connexion with his Jewish identity, until after his capture). For many years the Israeli secret services maintained that they would not use local Jews because exposure of a spy might cause a terrible backlash on innocent Jews in that nation (as happened in Egypt in the 1950s, and again in Syria after the exposure of Elie Cohen -- look him up). However, they did get caught using local Jews in Norway in 1973 (when taking revenge on the savages that murdered the Israeli Olympians in Munich) and then, of course, there is Pollard, who was a walk-in.

  3. Tell us all about your problems with the world's Jews. Too many, right ?

    I've got no beef with the world's Jews. A remarkable bunch of people, and some of the greatest Americans. My comment "This selfless servant of world Jewry" was a sarcastic reference to the way that the greedy, faithless Pollard has re-invented himself as a faithful Jewish martyr after being sentenced to prison. In the long run, Pollard didn't do himself, Israel, the US, the Jews or the goyim any good at all.

    But I can see how you took my smart-ass comment as an anti-Semitic slur. That's a problem with the net, of course, comments are stripped of the connotative impact of inflection and tone. Seriously, I was putting down one bad Jew, Jon Jay Pollard, not the millions of good ones.

  4. This type of language is typical of Islamic terrorists and their neoNazi confederates

    By this you mean my reference to former Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir as "former Stern Gang terrorist." Yeah, maybe the Palis call him that, but at least he was a former terrorist as opposed to, say, Yassser Arafat, who was and is a terrorist yesterday, today and tomorrow.

    As far as Shamir is concerned, he was a terrorist in anyone's reckoning: he had Lord Moyne murdered in 1944; he conducted random bombings and reprisal executions; he was killing British soldiers in [then] Palestine while Hitler was killing them in Europe, often by the same underhanded methods. Compare Menachem Begin, who had his terrorist moments, but made common cause with the British to fight the Nazis. (Many of the agents dropped into occupied Europe by the SIS and the SOE were Jews who were recruited through Begin's good offices. These people risked, and often lost, everything to defeat the evil of Nazism. Shamir sat that one out).

    In the end, Shamir did indeed turn from terrorism to politics, as Begin had done before him. But his bloody history made him a polarizing figure in Israeli and regional politics. To point it out may be something Nazis do, but Nazis also believed in the law of gravity; that's because it was a fact, not a Nazi idea.

    And I will concede this much on Shamir: his targets usually had some military or political nexus, even if his attacks routinely violated the laws of land warfare, and simple human decency. While that would not have been enough to save his life at the Nuremburg trials, it is very much more than the Palestinians have done. Their attacks are normally organised and planned in such a way as to maximise their bestial cruelty -- as terrorists go, old Shamir was a gentle one by PLO standards.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

23 posted on 01/15/2004 4:59:01 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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