IRS Moves to Threaten Second Amendment Newsletters, E-mail Alerts

Gun Owners of America ^ | January 15,2004 | GOA staff

[Trteamer]

Howdy softengine!
Thanks for the ping! I sent 3 letters myself yesterday. You must be on GOA's e-mail list too.

Let's get together soon and FReep the leftists!
All the Best.

[Blood of Tyrants]

And sterilizing and imprisonng all ex-IRS agents so that their kind can never contaminate society ever again.

Thank you Woodrow Wilson, the socialist president who brought us the WOD, Prohibition, the income tax, and elected senators.

[jimkress]

Gun Owners of America, Inc., is a tax-exempt organization under section 501(c) (4)

So they are covered, as are most of the other advocacy groups in the US.

In addition, the action of any part of the government to forbid any person (or group of persons) from communicating their political views is unconscionable. It is an act of absolute tyranny that is totally in violation of the 1st Amendment. No matter who is affected, it is wrong and cannot be tolerated.

[Dead Corpse]

I see, then on Jefferson's words written prior to the Constitution, we should discard the Constitution, overthrow the government instituted under that Constitution, for a law that is Constitututional because we as individuals do not like it and are too lazy to throw out the rascals that support said Constitutional though disagreeable law.

You cannot sit there and honestly say that the government we have today conforms to the US Constitution and the writings of those who wrote it.

[ancient_geezer]

I didn't state that at all.

I do however maintain, where taxation is concerned, folks are barking up the wrong tree if they expect the courts to be in their camp or change how we are taxed except through legislative and/or Article V action.

OTOH The court(at the USSC level) is still open to defending 2nd amendment rights and clamping down on extensions of the Commerce Clause(refer Lopez decision).

For the first time in many decades we have a condition where the USSC will haveaddress the 2nd amendment issue head on with circuit courts maintaining diametrically opposed position and ripe for USSC intervention.

You figure it's time for physical revolt? I don't and I don't intend support those that do. There is alot left to be attempted before that time arrives.

[Dead Corpse]

For the first time in many decades we have a condition where the USSC will haveaddress the 2nd amendment issue head on with circuit courts maintaining diametrically opposed position and ripe for USSC intervention.

Ha! Yeah right. And which side do you think the USSC would come down on? They wouldn't dare rock the boat. Silveria was good enough. The Emerson case was good enough. I'm sure if you go a-looking, there will be dozens of cases over the last few decades where they have COMPLETLY dodged the issue. You'd get another "remand back to a lower court" ruling, or a "compelling state interest". As for Bush, no... I don't think that even if he gets re-elected that he will appoint the type of judges that would rule against 70 years of legislative malfeasance. After all, the recent DC case on Washingtons handgun ban was a Bush appointee and he took the "collective Rights" view.

You figure it's time for physical revolt? I don't and I don't intend support those that do. There is alot left to be attempted before that time arrives.

I think the system is broken. I do not have a lot of hope left that it can be fixed. A lot has ALREADY been attempted and the options are running out. I figure one or two more court cases and the Second Amendment will be dead. And people like you will just shrug and re-draw your lines in the sand another ten yards back while calling the rest of us "extremists". Thanks pal.

[spacewarp]

Where are the demonstrations? They won't happen. Not yet. Why? Because most of us have to work for a living and pay Uncle Sam the wages of our work. Then, when we are done with that, we have to scrape by to make our mortgage and every thing else. It won't happen because the mass media suppresses information like this. It won't happen because until the sheeple are educated (not indoctrinated) they won't understand what they are giving up when they give up their rights.

I feel like Neo in The Matrix. I see what's going on and know there are a group of individuals that run the system. We here at FreeRepublic, and some other outposts, (The Patriot Party, World Net Daily and Rush, Sean Hannity, Neal Boortz and several other web and radio resources), are like the proverbial Zion. We know what's going on, and are trying to change it. But, currently, the machines are more powerful. And if we don't stop them, they WILL come after us some day.

I just hope we can stop them in time.

Paul

[ancient_geezer]

I think the system is broken. I do not have a lot of hope left that it can be fixed. A lot has ALREADY been attempted and the options are running out. I figure one or two more court cases and the Second Amendment will be dead. And people like you will just shrug and re-draw your lines in the sand another ten yards back while calling the rest of us "extremists". Thanks pal.

LOL, go cry in yer bucket. These folks will be more than happy to join you. Course you might have a problem maintaining control over the end result.

 

[pointsal]

another reason for a flat tax

[ancient_geezer]

Just what will a flat tax do for you?

It's still an income tax with an IRS, does nothing to remove witholding, or SS/Mediscare payroll taxes, nor the requirement to tell Uncle how much you make and where you make it, and having to calculate just what is taxable, then have to prove it to em.

The flat tax still maintains a class of folks not paying against another group paying the freight. Guess which side of that one will continue to push for more bennies from Uncle.

Going to the National Retail Sales Tax makes much more sense;

Thomas Hobbes from Leviathan

• It is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income.

Everyone participates & pays the same rate at the retail register, removing that kowtow to government with its hook of audit and IRS interventions into the family altogether. With everyone participating and paying the same tax on retail purchase, totally in full view, tends to remove support for groups pushing for more taxes.

John Linder in the House & Saxby Chambliss Senate, offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a pure consumption tax:

H.R.25
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 01/7/2003)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

S.1493
Sponsor: Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] (introduced 7/30/2003)
Title: A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer: http://www.fairtax.org & http://www.salestax.org

I recommend you look into it, before throwing your hat in the ring for the same ole stuff in different package.

[Dead Corpse]

Restoring us to a Constitutional Republic is not joining the anarcho-socialists you moron.

Never insult me like that again.

[ancient_geezer]

Ha! Yeah right. And which side do you think the USSC would come down on? They wouldn't dare rock the boat.

Read and understand Lopez

The Emerson case was good enough.

Emerson is only one circuit, the 9th circuit's opinon in opposition. No help nor jory their. Neither are USSC decisions.

will be dozens of cases over the last few decades where they have COMPLETLY dodged the issue.

And none Circuit level, none opposing,.One place the USSC cannot avoid ruling is when circuit rulings are in opposition.

As for Bush, no... I don't think that even if he gets re-elected that he will appoint the type of judges that would rule against 70 years of legislative malfeasance. After all, the recent DC case on Washingtons handgun ban was a Bush appointee and he took the "collective Rights" view.

I think the system is broken.

Yawn. So go cry in your corner.

I'll continue to work to push for the necessary changes through by understanding what I am up against and working with the tools that make sense and are most likely to support, protect and preserve the Constition and the nation.

Mob violence is the refuge of the incompetent and more often destroys that which you would preserve rather. Armed revolt by a mob is leads directly to anarchy and tyranny of the warlords.

[ancient_geezer]

Restoring us to a Constitutional Republic is not joining the anarcho-socialists you moron.

And just how do you intend to "restore" that which must be first destroyed in mob rebellions?

Those anarchist/communists out there want that above all else to achieve their ends not yours.

You have the frame work & Constitution and the institutions it raises in place now, you revolt and that is what you are revolting against. That is why your call to rebellion and revolt can lead to nothing but anarchy and tyranny.

These folks will be pushing behind you walking lockstep with you all the way until they push you aside and place there own in your stead after weaking yourself in your piddling revolution.

Start looking at history my friend. That is the way most revolutions go, and today is a long cry from the conditions and leaders we had in 1776.

Never insult me like that again.

All dupes deserve insult, And you are one until you start thinking about who pushes hardest for revolt and how they operate to undermine the good intents to evil ends.

Not everyone the agrees with you in word and present deed is necessarily friend.

Not everyone that disagrees with your intend means is your enemy.

[Dead Corpse]

Lopez may help straighten crap out about the Commerce clause, but it will have little bearing on the Individual Rights view of the Second Amendment. Get over it.

Armed revolt by a mob is leads directly to anarchy and tyranny of the warlords.

You mean like the Founders declaring independance from the King? Get your head out of your ass.

[ancient_geezer]

You mean like the Founders declaring independance from the King? Get your head out of your ass.

I suggest you get your head out of your ass and testosterone level. And start reasoning.

You are declaring independance from the Constitution and institutions that resulted from it you fool. Not some King, not some dictator, but against "We the People" that exist today and the government they effect in all its imperfection.

You do not restore a republican government by acting in direct conflict to the institutions and foundation it is based on. You repair such a government from inside the same way it is impaired through years of political action. You work with and educate the People, and through the Constitutional institutions to strength not weaken the nation.

That takes time and patience but the altenative most likely result of armed revolt is tyranny through anarchy for future generations if you don't.

[Dead Corpse]

Even the leaders we had in 1776 were not all that lilly white. I'd rather take my chances with a civil war than to watch lawyers like you chip away at our freedoms.

History shows that time and again, as government power grows, those trying to work from within the system end up doing more harm than good. The Nazis didn't rise to power in one day. The Roman empire rotted from within. Even the former Soviet Union collapsed under its own weight. As is ours.

History, it would seem, is on my side. Not yours. Unless you have one of those new history books they are handing out in government schools these days?

[Dead Corpse]

You are declaring independance from the Constitution and institutions that resulted from it you fool.

If you think we still have a Constitutional Republic then you are dumber than I thought you were. How are our Senators elected? What force remains in the Bill of Rights? How much of our legal system is more about LAW and less about justice as intended? How many of those checks and balances are even functional anymore much less execised?

History shows time and again that once a system reaches that breakpoint, no amount of "working within the system" is effectual. Our schools are now controlled by our ideological enemy and you think mass re-education of our populace will be effective? Get real.

Your idiot assertion on revolt will remain so for as long as the memory of what our Founders accomplished exists.

[ancient_geezer]

Lopez may help straighten crap out about the Commerce clause

Commerce is the hook for every gun law in place, it is used to justify every action the National government can take regards gun control.

It is a big deal and is the weapon you are fighting against.

In states you are going to have to fight the battle one by one for local control, but on the national level Commerce Clause is the one and only hook used to regulate everything.

Ignore it at the peril of every right you have.

Look at the core of the USSC position on campaign finance control, you will see Commerce Clause staring back out at you.

Look at the core of every nation gun law on the books, you will find Commerce Clause there in spades.

Until you constrain the use of Commerce Clause, there weapon of choice, every freedom we have remain in jeopardy of executive action through it.

What good is a 2nd amendment guarantee to RKBA when quality firearms cannot be purchased except through Commerce Clause regulation. You gonna keep passing down heirlooms until they don't fire no more and are obsolete against the government controlled technology?

Think buddy, Commece Clause doesn't effect your individual right, to keep and use what you have, it just controls what your children can obtain in the future.

So get real. RBKA without capacity to replace arms and ammunition in training and use, is a dead individual right. Bearing an empty rifle = a high tech club. You have a right to keep and bear it as an individual all you wish for what it is worth.

Under Commerce Clause buying, selling and manufacturing replacement arms, ammunition and the components for either in quantity becomes the real issue. So as they say get over it!

[Dead Corpse]

The Commerce clause may have been, but it is no longer. Now it is UN mandates, "compelling interest", "collective Rights", "an eye towards ensuring firearms are kept from criminals", not too mention "for the militia, the National Guard, only".

One federal case establishing RKBA as an "unalienable Right" for individuals, as the Founders intended, is all it would take to correct 70 years of judicial side-stepping and fracturing of precedent and logic. They refuse all such cases. Every single one.

Pinning our hopes of a restored RKBA on a commerce clause re-interpretation is pie-in-the-sky to say the least. The BATFE has too much vested interest. State governments would never give up their power to license and regulate who carries firearms. The USSC itself is too GUTLESS to do what is plainly Right. Any number of cases brought before them could have been used to strike down RKBA infringements on a clear reading of the Second Amendment, yet they steadfastly refuse to do so.

Get over it indeed. The system is broken and those at the controls will make sure it STAYS broken.

[spacewarp]

The problem with wishing for people like that is if they started working towards the goals that they had become famous for, they would be actually imprisioned and made out to be radical right-wing extremists by the media.