Backers say Bush plan goes beyond immigration

Washington Times ^ | 1-15-04 | Bill Sammon

[JustPiper]

President Bush's political strategists, taking note of the unpopularity of his immigration initiative as reflected in public-opinion polls, expressed confidence yesterday that the proposal will gain support as it is recast as an economic and homeland security issue.

"Once people have had a chance to educate themselves about the proposal and what it does, support for it will grow," said Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee.

[B4Ranch]

My plan says take what you have and leave or if we catch you, you'll go without anything but the clothes on your back!

"The National Population Council reported that 9.9 million Mexicans call America home and that more than 7.82 million of those - or 79 percent - do not have U.S. citizenship. It did not break down how many had legal residence papers."

"According to a RoperASW poll from last year, 83 percent of Americans support mandatory detention and forfeiture of property for illegal immigrants, followed by deportation."

I'm one of the 83%.

If the President Bush or Tom Ridge would announce that in six months they will be paying a $50 per head bounty for each illegal alien on American soil there would be a mad rush for the borders.

A policeman in a car costs the average city about $200 an hour. Helicopters cost at least $2000 an hour with the ground crews. What is the full cost of a teacher per hour? $140.00 or there about.

If we could get illegal aliens to turn each other in, just the ones trying to slip through the net, (I know thousands would attempt it) we would save billions in law enforcement, welfare programs, unemployment, medical care, job training and schools the first year.

Do all this under Executive Order and tell the Courts to back off. This is national security!

Any employer who has employed an illegal alien more than five months from the announcement date will be fined $5000 per employee. One month later enforcement begins. This will give employers 5 months to shed the illegals and hire legally papered actual American citizens.

Then on the announced date, start in a state such as Oklahoma. Well centered, not overly populated and clean the state out. This would give Homeland, INS and Border Patrol time to install their co-agents in various court houses around the country to verify a persons paperwork, i.e.. birth certificates, hospital records, etc.

Go state to state from the epicenter sweeping out the criminals who have successfully avoided suspicion. They already had 5 months to get out, hanging around to test the system carries a SEVERE penalty. They won't be able to say they weren't warned.

Divide a state into quadrants depending on population per square mile., First arrest those whose names were turned in for the bounty. Then others suspected by local law agencies. When arrests slow down, open an adjoining quadrant.

Get caught after the selected dated and the result would be every foreign national who is not in America legally would forfeit all their belongings (houses, cars, bank accounts, etc.) and be deported within 24 hours. These forfeited belongings would then be given to local churches for distribution to the needy in that community. Another cost saver!

This enforcement would apply to illegals from every country in the world, not just Mexico.

Imagine the number of Chinese who would be taking the ship home with everything in the house, new cars, you name it would be on those ships. The thousands of Canadians who decided the USA was better than Canada would be again headed North.

How many schools could be closed? How many hospitals and state paid housing tracts? How many welfare offices? How many planned jail enlargements could be stopped for lack of need?

How many state and federal employees would find out that they have the time to actually give good service to their American customers?

Oh yes, it would be an economic shocker in the amount of taxes that could be reduced or used to actually improve something needed for American citizens, instead of illegal foreigners.

Want an approximate number of the population drop? Try 50 million+ with the majority over 30 years of age, having been illegal residents of America for over ten years.

I've always wondered how many folks are on Medicare that don't deserve it. I'll bet that would save a big chuink of money that could be used for American war veterans and citizens health problems.

Just imagine the frantic squealing from our politicians thinking of the lost votes and contributions. That would be a sideshow worth watching!

Scan the whole page for good reading!
Conservative Debate Handbook

[Solson]

You won't find them now. Less than 15% of the total US population is less than 15 years of age. And it will continue to shift upwards. the Dept. of Labor estimates full time farm workforce is 60+% foreign workers. They also conservatively estimate the cost of labor would DOUBLE if employing Americans.

But as any Ag. expert will contend, Americans simply will not pick fruit nor engage is tough, physical, seasonal labor for $6 per hour.

Finally, cut the crap about "my parents" "hefty allowances" and the other assinine comments you make. I expect to see class envy from DU posters...not FR posters.

[Solson]

Sorry but your personal work ethic stories do NOT transfer to the majority of Americans. Disparity in current income levels, education levels, and work ethic, as well as a shrinking low wage workforce all distinctly show Americans UNWILLING to take these jobs.

[FITZ]

Americans would work for $6 an hour if they didn't have federal scholarship money or welfare. Obviously people will take money that's free especially if it's more than what they can get for working.

Also which American youths have the worst employment statistics? Minority youths --- and that includes hispanic youths with very high unemployment rates --- why can't they work these jobs?

[FITZ]

Everyone coveniently forgets about pulling 14 million out of the low wage workforce.

14 million illegals are not here working --- a good portion of them --- 25% to 38% are living on welfare programs --- depending on where you look to find the statistics. Many are young attending our schools --- not working at all, there is a sizeable number in prison and local jails. Quite a large portion of that number are not here working. We didn't add 14 million farm worker jobs --- not with farmland shrinking at the rate it is.

[k2blader]

President Bush has always wanted Amnesty for Illegal Aliens. Always.

Bold statement.

What makes you think this?

[FITZ]

You're the one who believes NO American would do certain jobs ---- I know for a fact that many have and many still do. Why would one job be too demeaning? All work is good, entry level jobs are a great way to either just have spending money or pull yourself up into middle class if you aren't already there.

Also where is the proof that any of these jobs were ever offered to Americans? Was any recruiting ever done in low income neighborhoods or inner cities? We see people here in the military who came from inner cities --- if they would join the military and possibly die in a war --- I don't think you can say all will not work --- if given the chance.

[Solson]

Total unemployment in this country equates to roughly 16 million people. TOTAL UNEMPLOYMENT! Most experts agree that roughly 4-5% of the population is unemployable. So, reasonably, we could get down to 4-5% total unemployment. Pull 8-14 million immigrants out of that workforce and we will face a SEVERE labor shortage. That increases the costs of every product out there. So, what will happen? Will we pay higher prices? Of course not! We will continue to OUTSOURCE to countries like Mexico, India and China.

We need low wage workers in this country. They won't come from our own.

[FITZ]

Hmmm, so they only polled the Gated Community Elitist types? I cut my grass, shovel my snow, wash my own car, babysit my own kids. Been doing it without ILLEGAL ALIENS for 40+ years, leaving me of course wondering how I managed. Blackbird.

Same here --- I've never had to hire an illegal to get my bed made or my dishes washed. I hired a babysitter ---- but was willing to pay an American for that. I've done the jobs some say no American would ever do --- I know a lot of people who have. I think when you travel around it's the USA which has middle class people doing jobs that would be too menial in countries like Mexico. In Mexico when you see a waiter or waitress or janitor --- those are not jobs you'd ever see a college student there doing. They are the ones with the elitist attitudes toward certain honest types of work.

[k2blader]

Oh ya, what has Bush done? He has stimulated debate on a crucial problem facing America which has been on the back burner too long.

Why didn't he choose to "stimulate debate" by saying he proposes a stronger crackdown on illegal aliens and the criminals who hire them?

[WhiteGuy]

"It's not just an immigration proposal, it's also an economic proposal,"


Oh.............

That's a lie, pass the chips...............

[Solson]

Fine, take 50% of them out of the workforce. Let's say there are 5 million working. The total civilian workforce within the US is 144,000,000 with a 5.8% unemployment rate.

Pull them out and we have a serious labor problem.

My point, as well as that of numerous others is that this immigration issue is very complex and cannot be met with simple proposals of enforcement and better border security. There are secondary effects of the current situation as there will be with whatever plan is finally put in place. Let's debate this immigration issue but let's not ignore the secondary effects nor the root causes...on either side of the argument.

[Marine Inspector]

Get an SS number database going that employers can access via the internet. Then start enforcing employer sanctions. With no jobs but the offer of a bus ticket home, guess what many Mexicans and Central Americans will do?

That and cut off the welfare they get.

[Solson]

No, I'm the one who believes Americans because of many reasons are unwilling to perform in those tasks.

Yeah, all work is good, etc. etc. But, many, YES many, are not willing to work in fast food much less 14 hour days in the fields.

Tell ya what, you go and try and find a group of folks to work for $6 per hour. Heck, give em air conditioning, a desk and a phone. You'll be hard pressed to find 'em.

[FITZ]

And how many inner-city youths head off to prison because job opportunities really don't exist in their neighborhood --- and were there ever any work programs to get them early on --- the minute they drop out of school?

I've worked some with hispanic gangs here --- these kids are dropping out of school in middle school, they have no clue at all on how to get a job --- no recruiters come to their neighborhoods even to offer them a chili picking job --- it's apparently cheaper to bring in illegals. I've seen with my own eyes that some of these kids will take jobs if they get some help in finding a job. And it doesn't have to be a job that requires a PhD --- they will work low menial jobs.

[Marine Inspector]

I get tired of hearing the naysayers tell how "impossible" it is so that they rationalize keeping 10-14 MILLION illegal aliens here forever!

LOL, as do I.

[FITZ]

It's not 50% working either --- many of the illegals have brought over sizeable families and the kids are not working --- these kids are often forming the unemployed hispanic gang problem which is a very fast growing problem in the cities and towns of the SW. Their kids are the so-called Americans who won't do $6 an hour jobs --- but really many were never once offered these jobs, so I don't think it's fair to really claim they won't do them.

[Marine Inspector]

Tom Tancredo has won 18 write-ins -- and the evil Dems have to find 19 fewer dead folks and criminal aliens.

LOL, good.

[FITZ]

What I think is ---- if an employer can prove that they tried to find Americans --- which means recruiting efforts made in disadvantaged neighborhoods and inner cities --- a recruiter sent to low income housing projects first before heading off to Mexico --- then bring in temporary guest workers --- not for 3 years because most of the agricultural jobs are very seasonal. Bus or fly in your apple pickers --- when the harvest is done, then bus or fly them back home. No non-working family members need to come along. The children stay in Mexico to be educated much more cheaply ---- and by their own government. Health care needs of the family members stay the responsibility of that country. No three year pass for a job that might last 3 months.

[Little Ray]

Like your handle. Is it a reference to Monty Python or to the oracle at Delphi?

Bush is trying to get the illegals on the tax rolls to pay for at least some of the services they are using. Good try but I think he is overlooking issues like "anchor babies" and other problems. It also spits in the face of all the legal immigrants. I don't think it will work. I think more stringent measures are called for to support the work permits, but I don't think Bush or the Republican party has the guts to follow up on them.

For example, pass a national version of prop 187 that denies all services to illegal aliens: no school, no hospital treatment, no licenses, nothing. Pass a law ending anchor babies (a US citizen is redefined as child born to parents, one of whom is a US citizen; citizenship can be made retro-active to minor children if one of their parents becomes a US citizen). Curtail funding to all state and local agencies that do not support the INS in locating and deporting illegal aliens.

Then offer the permits. After three years, they can take their money and their family and go home. Or, someone can sponsor them for permanent residency (we should always try to keep the best of the immigrants, legal or otherwise...).