Posted on 01/14/2004 8:29:38 AM PST by Viva Le Dissention
Edited on 05/07/2004 6:27:02 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
There is one subject that truly separates professional economists from everyone else. Nearly all economists -- conservatives and liberals alike -- agree that free international trade is good, and the freer you make trade the better. But polls often show the public at large supports trade barriers.
(Excerpt) Read more at indystar.com ...
When the government steps in and says that certain labor is "off-limits" in the labor market, it side-steps laissez-faire economics in favor of a model that creates inefficient markets and waste.
The main restriction that the government puts on labor is that thingy called the border. Since the federal government does have the enumerated power [To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;] and
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;]
, and duty...
[To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;]
...to protect that border, employers don't have an absolute right to bid for labor in the market free of governmental restrictions.
Labor is a good, just like steel, subject to laws regulating commerce between foreign nations. If the congress simply does it's duty and regulates commerce and establishes uniform laws of naturalization, we can throw the illegals out, thus necessitating employers to bid for labor at American market value.
Get rid of minimum wage and seal the borders.
Vote Tancreo in 2004.
If you tell me where this is going it might be interesting.
As long as that person is in compliance with U.S. laws, including UNIFORM Rules of Naturalization as proscribed by the Constitution, then nothing.
But...
If Canada can manufacture drugs more cheaply than US companies, why shouldn't I, as a patient, purchase that medicine?
If Chipirates can copy and sell Microsoft more cheaply than Bill Gates, why shouldn't I, as a businessman, purchase that OS?
Are we talking about tariffs or subsidies, or do you believe they are the same thing? With respect to taxes, there is a world of difference between direct and indirect, so much so that our own Constitution specifically banned direct taxes without apportionment. Of course this was later amended, but the question remains: what has changed that makes it OK for the government to turn its subjects into personal tax collectors?
Well said, and a hat-tip to you. This is an argument I have been making in other fora. There is a 'tragedy of the commons' effect at work, whereby each company's decision looks correct on the profit/loss ledger, but degrades the 'commons': our legal, political, and econonomic infrastructure. There are externalities to each decision made which may not be small enough to be overlooked.
Damnit Jim, you're not supposed to ask questions like that! Free trade is not really about saving consumers' money, it is about saving money for producers. That is the direct benefit, and you are supposed to be happy with your indirect theoretical beneift whether it materializes or not. So, how can you too directly benefit from free trade? Become a shareholder and hope you do not get screwed by the board.
Of course, people were claiming that 20 years ago.
One of the more inane posters I have encountered. More interested in a flame war than discussing the question. As if it matters to the subject how I formulated my beliefs and the details of my business life.
But aren't there losers? Yes, there are losers: firms and workers in some import competing industries. There's no doubt that trade hurts those who can't compete.
What BS. I am for free trade, but this is stupid. Its like talking to a brick wall with these people.
America needs free trade...on a selective basis. Emphasis on the "selective basis".
Almost all of corporate America are in some ways big losers when we try to be everything to everyone. We should by all means have free trade, but we should also discriminate against certain countries on a case by case situation by situation basis.
If I were to describe our current economic funk, it is brought on by trade. Yes.
I have been saying it for years and months.
When we let whoever come into our markets, we end up with several negatives. First off the fact that prices are SO low is a negative. Corporate profits shrink right along with it. Employment drops and hence the market for goods shrinks. Because those jobs are exported overseas, companies have to fight massive trade barriers for people to buy their goods.
Any idiot knows the CRUX of free trade for us is not cheap labor but supposedly foreign markets.
Trade as it stands creates a net negative witching effect. Corporate profits shrink and they have to fight like hell to sell things here. They REALLY have to fight like hell to sell things elsewhere. Employment in the consumer market drops especially as corporate profits shrink. This draws profits even lower.
Its true, but hey, there is this ideological thing going about trade. Its more ideology than reality. At some point the cylce must break.
At some historic points argument of bigger and better jobs has applied, but not always. Unfortunately our last bigger and better jobs turned into a massive pyramid scheme. In other words, the bigger and better replacement jobs are not there either.
We sold the farm for the internet and all its masses of over projected jobs and profits, and now we are without any of it. We built our house on a fad and overextended ourselves into 'trade' because of it. Now we have to figure out something.
1. What is going to now replace the internet as our next big fad driven boom?
2. If we can't think of anything then the current trade model and justification for our current style of trade is shot.
3. We also have to realize that our current trade model is sick. Us being everything to everyone while they shut us out is wrong and we should use our power to end it.
Damn lies.
In the 1920's and 1950's, the American economy boomed, and migration before and during those booms was at extremely low levels.
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