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Looking to refute this Peter Drucker quote.....
Peter Drucker / Fortune Magazine ^ | 12/29/03 | Peter Drucker

Posted on 01/13/2004 7:57:30 AM PST by tristam

"DRUCKER: NOT ALL JOBS ARE EQUAL IN WORLD ECONOMY" The renowned management consultant Peter Drucker explains in the new issue of Fortune that most people don't understand how job exportation and importation really works in the global economy: "Nobody seems to realize that we import twice or three times as many jobs as we export. We are exporting low-skill, low-paying jobs but are importing high-skill, high-paying jobs. Consequently, the industries that are moving jobs out of the U.S. are the most backward industries. The U.S. remains the cheapest place in the world to produce for many of the more advanced industries." Why is that? Because "employee benefits are much cheaper than in Europe, and American workers are more flexible." (Fortune 12 Jan 2004)


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: drucker; economy; freetrade; jobs; nafta
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The above was sent to me via email and it checks out that he said it. What I am looking for is some data on who the heck is the guy, and why he is wrong, which I think he is..... thanks freepers.
1 posted on 01/13/2004 7:57:32 AM PST by tristam
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To: tristam
LOL...you don't know who Peter Drucker is? Go do a google or yahoo search. He's the GODFATHER of MANAGEMENT studies.
2 posted on 01/13/2004 8:03:05 AM PST by goodnesswins (The year 2004......It's gonna be a great one!)
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To: tristam
I think what he is referring to is the number of businesses from overseas who have put manufacturing plants in the US in the last 20 years, and also the huge trade surplus that the US runs in the service sector.
3 posted on 01/13/2004 8:07:21 AM PST by babble-on
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To: Willie Green
Ping, 'n'at.
4 posted on 01/13/2004 8:08:27 AM PST by martin_fierro (HEY! I'm tryin' t'run a classy thread here!)
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To: tristam
I read this last week. I believe it was on FR. I don't agree with Mr. Drucker, however, if you do a Google search you will find a 94 year old with a tremedous body of work throughout most of the 20th century.
5 posted on 01/13/2004 8:10:03 AM PST by em2vn
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To: tristam; chimera; maui_hawaii
Peter Drucker is often referred to as the 'Father of Management' and he, along with Deming, is revered by the Japanese, among others in Wall Street, for his management principles. Gave them quite a leg up on the U.S. until the U.S. adopted their principles as well.

I am not sure about the quote, but if he said it, it would imply that in his dotage (born in 1909) he is not quite as cognizant of the DETAILS of the service jobs being outsourced or the manufacturing being outsourced. He has been obsolesced by the passage of time. China in particular, with its 17 million university students versus our 15 million and their hugely disparate emphasis on the hard sciences means under his own theory of comparative strengths...they are the stronger. So if he said what is now attributed to him, he is, in effect, contradicting his own paradigm.

It is simply likely he is ignorant of what is going on, and merely regurgitating the truths as he knew them in his prime, back in the 70's and 80's.

6 posted on 01/13/2004 8:12:09 AM PST by Paul Ross (Reform Islam Now! -- Nuke Mecca!)
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To: tristam
Check your prejudices before doing research. Just looking for why he is wrong? You might want to ask why he might be right too. However, even if we are importing high tech jobs, it's not going to ballance out employment wise if we also import a large number of high tech workers.
7 posted on 01/13/2004 8:16:01 AM PST by dblshot (Whose account can I count on?)
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To: tristam
There is wisdom in Drucker's words, and they remind me of a little parable that I've paraphrased from Bastiat.

Robinson Crusoe, shortly after washing ashore on a remote island, had need of a long (thirty foot long) wooden plank; so he looked around, spotted a tree, and decided he'd start the next day by using an axe to chop down the tree -- and then trim the trunk into a plank.

Crusoe estimated it to be a three week job.

At dawn, Crusoe went to the tree, lifted the axe and ... suddenly ... he spotted what looked like a plank floating into the beach on a wave.

Crusoe ran down, splashed into the water, and ... he had the plank, and ... It was perfect.

But instead of takiing the plank from the sea, Crusoe pushed it out, he shoved it over the waves, and he watched it float away in the current.

Crusoe then went to work on his tree.

He had saved his job from cheap foreign imports.

---

The story was paraphrased from contents on page 243 of Frederic Bastiat's book "Economic Sophisms."

8 posted on 01/13/2004 8:26:27 AM PST by thinktwice (America is truly blessed ... with George W. Bush as President..)
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To: tristam
Mr. Drucker is very wrong. I work in the semiconductor industry and have seen entire departments outsourced to Asia. These were jobs in programming, accounting and supply management. More will be outsourced in the future. For information to refute his claim that it is only lower-skilled jobs that are outsourced go to washtech.org. But if you don't know who Drucker is you should first read some of the literature of business management from the last half of the 20th century.
9 posted on 01/13/2004 8:27:09 AM PST by TexasKamaAina
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To: tristam
We are exporting low-skill, low-paying jobs but are importing high-skill, high-paying jobs.

I keep hearing this repeated over and over but the reality of what I see on the street and in the trenches is different. I'm beginning to think it's nothing more than a platitude, something to soothe the anger of the masses, along the lines of the Big Lie and the old adage of maybe if you say something often enough it will come true, or at least people will think it is true.

Just this past week we had two more high-tech casualties in the family. My one brother-in-law lost his latest IT job and is throwing in the towel on that career after 15 years or so in the business and an expensive education. He's in training to become an insurance salesman. (We'll really be an industrial-economic-military powerhouse as a nation of insurance salesmen.) The other casualty was my cousin-in-law, who lost his job after 41 years with what used to be RCA (Sarnoff Research Labs, which was essentially given away to Stanford Research Institute when GE raided and bought out and gutted RCA). He's out pounding the pavement at age 59 and a bad knee. No prospects for jobs in his field for someone his age. No prospects outside his field, either. He can't even get on riding the garbage truck (bad knee, too old, and overqualified). To head off the usual FR canard, "Start a business of your own, you lazy bum!" (And then, "screw 'em!"), let me say that this is out of the question in this case, since he has no startup capital (money is being spent caring for an elderly, disabled parent).

10 posted on 01/13/2004 8:33:19 AM PST by chimera
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To: tristam
Do a search on FR for THIS:

Peter Drucker Sets Us Straight ( On jobs, debt, globalization, and recession)
Fortune Magazine ^ | 12 October 2003 | Brent Schlender
Posted on 01/03/2004 3:57:44 PM PST by shrinkermd
11 posted on 01/13/2004 8:45:29 AM PST by goodnesswins (The year 2004......It's gonna be a great one!)
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To: tristam
Consequently, the industries that are moving jobs out of the U.S. are the most backward industries.

He's off his rocker.
12 posted on 01/13/2004 8:48:15 AM PST by lelio
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To: chimera
he has no startup capital

After reaping the rewards of 41 years with RCA in a technical capacity -- he has no capital?

Why?

13 posted on 01/13/2004 8:59:23 AM PST by thinktwice (America is truly blessed ... with George W. Bush as President..)
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To: thinktwice
After reaping the rewards of 41 years with RCA in a technical capacity -- he has no capital?

Why?

Did you just stop reading from that line and shoot from the hip? Keep reading the last phrase. Theirs is a problem many families face today, the need to provide and care for an elderly parent who is in need of skilled care. Ever have to do that? I have, and I can tell you, it costs. They spent essentially every dime for both endowment to provide long-term care, and also need to manage day-to-day needs. That on top of other family expenses (kid's education, mortgage, food on the table, etc.). Doesn't leave a lot to spend on a business startup, particularly one where significant investment up front may be needed (e.g., technical work).

This was probably a lead-in for that third standard FR response, which follows "start a business" and is kind of a corollary to "screw 'em", and that is, "it's your own fault".

14 posted on 01/13/2004 9:17:33 AM PST by chimera
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To: chimera
Did you just stop reading from that line and shoot from the hip?

He 'shot from the lip'. :-)

Typical CATO lip service. I think your observation about the canard being drolly issued by the CATO-ites is extremely accurate. This would be why they are more resistant to stubborn facts than any reasonable person would be. They are either in psychological denial, and/or lazily unwilling to reexamine their assumptions and ideological precepts (i.e., do a reality-check)...or as you suspect...they are CONSCIOUSLY expounding 'The Big Lie' to merely spin a majority of voters into accepting as reality. That would be the typical CATO hack of today.

I tend to doubt that Drucker would be among their ranks if he was on top of his game, and conversant with the DETAILS which an 94-year-old might understandably not be aware of. He was often in the vanguard of unsettling managerial applecart's in his prime.

15 posted on 01/13/2004 9:42:44 AM PST by Paul Ross (Reform Islam Now! -- Nuke Mecca!)
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To: tristam; harpseal
Yup. Just picked through the interview by the author at Fortune magazine, and find that Drucker is being very selective in current events. He relies for support in his thesis the auto-parts supply business...but if you look at what is happening there, he is out of touch, and is ignoring the reality that Chrysler and GM have put in motion plans to outsource their auto-parts supply primarily from 'the world market' and manufacturers that don't make from outside the U.S. AND supply 'the world-beating best price' will be excluded. GM has more or less arbitrarily said it will import $10 billion/year of auto parts from China.

Some things he says do show some keen insight and common sense grounding in even current realities: Specifically, he warns against trusting the U.S. 'productivity improvement figures that we see.' And also "the economic dominance of the U.S. is already over. What is emerging is a world economy of blocs represented by NAFTA, the EU, ASEAN. There's no one center in this world economy. India is becoming a powerhouse very fast."

He tends to regard China as the lesser competitor to us than India, and dispute their growth numbers.

All in all, I would rate Drucker still a valuable read, even at 94, with an opinion that I wish would be read by the CEOs making the poor fad decisions they do...

The interview author can be given feedback at bschlender@fortunemail.com.

16 posted on 01/13/2004 10:07:07 AM PST by Paul Ross (Reform Islam Now! -- Nuke Mecca!)
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To: Paul Ross
I tend to doubt that Drucker would be among their ranks if he was on top of his game, and conversant with the DETAILS which an 94-year-old might understandably not be aware of. He was often in the vanguard of unsettling managerial applecart's in his prime.

I think your assessment is accurate. Someone who was aware of the details on the street and in the trenches and who was at the top of their game could not seriously view the dismemberment and wholesale sell-out of strategically important domestic industries, and intellectual capabilities, for short-term gain and the enrichment of an exceedingly small number of corporate executives as a net positive for the long-term economic growth and national security of the country as a whole. It's a lot like killing the goose that laid the golden egg just to have a turkey dinner, or maybe that is more like a dinner for turkeys. Anyone competent in management will know that if you destroy your company by selling out it's employees, it won't be long before you face the ax yourself, golden parachute or not.

17 posted on 01/13/2004 10:14:19 AM PST by chimera
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To: Paul Ross
Thanks for the link I shall read him but I do not consider any one management consultant or economist to be absolute authority on anything. You have noted his selectivity in reviewing current events to support a predetermined conclusion. Such is thepower of the view that Free Trade is beneficial. I for one do believe in Free Trade and going to a world economy now if we could just get some of the beneficiaries of open access to the US marketplace to agree.

India still has trhe words second highest tariff structure per the WTO, They still have currency controls and they still have non tariff barriers to American businesses. China still has its technology transfer rules and its non-tariff and tariff barriers on normal goods.

The only question now is have we already passed the tipping point hwere the USA will no longer have the economy necessary to support our military so that we can recover should we make thedecision not tp become ruled by others.

18 posted on 01/13/2004 11:32:54 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: harpseal
Actually, the link you want to read this article is found by clicking here. But this will only give you an excerpt, i.e., a partial introductory prefatory set of paragraphs, unless you pay to log in, you don't get the full article. The email address I listed previously to the interviewer Brent Schlender is for Feedback purposes only.
19 posted on 01/13/2004 12:13:31 PM PST by Paul Ross (Reform Islam Now! -- Nuke Mecca!)
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To: dblshot
you might do a search on this site and find the article, or go to fortune. but what he says is that management is bringing in great jobs from germany, where they have not had a single engineer hired in FIVE YEARS, because you can't fire them. The article goes into great detail aobut EU companies using America for brains, China for production.
20 posted on 01/13/2004 1:35:34 PM PST by q_an_a
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