Airline Passengers: Background Check

Washington Post ^ | 1/12/04 | Jay Stanley

[MineralMan]

Airline Passengers: Background Check

Jay Stanley Communications Director, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Monday, January 12, 2004; 1:00 PM

The U.S. government plans to push ahead this year with a vast computerized system to probe the backgrounds of all passengers boarding flights in the United States. The government will compel airlines to hand over all passenger records for scrutiny by U.S. officials and passengers will be scored with a number and a color that ranks their perceived security threat.

Jay Stanley, communications director of the Technology and Liberty Program at the ACLU, was online Monday, Jan. 12 at 1 p.m. ET, to discuss the controversial measure.

The ACLU has urged the Transportation Security Administration to completely abandon its plan to build the security system.

A request for an online discussion with an official of the Transportation Security Administration has been submitted.

A transcript follows.

[MineralMan]

This topic, generally, has been posted earlier, but is not receiving much comment. Here's an extended discussion of this new privacy concern. Seems like a fertile area for FR comment.

[Mr Spock]

I agree with the ACLU on this one. Whats next, tracking chips under our wrists that will monitor us like animals in the wild? I don't know about you gents, but I don't want to live my life like a damn rat lab.

[JohnGalt]

The INS and the FBI failed to do anything with the information they already had in regards to the 9/11 hijackers; why would anyone expect further federal control to make us any safer?

A classic case of fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[blackdog]

I've discovered that being a pilot flying on a paid ticket gets you a real going-over from the TSA fella's. I used to get invited up front for a chat, a look-see at the new avionics upgrades, and a cup of coffee. Now I get accosted by some moron with the latest letters in the alphabet soup on his jacket before I ever get near the plane.

Screw them. I fly myself or jump seat cargo from now on.

They've already been data-mining on people and are just trying to get it signed off on after the fact. The problem is they are mining the data of the wrong people.

[MineralMan]

"I've discovered that being a pilot flying on a paid ticket gets you a real going-over from the TSA fella's. "

Interesting. Are you a commercial pilot or GA? Since I don't hold any pilot's license, I've never encountered any of this.

However, I'm just fine with not allowing _anyone_ in the cockpit, these days. I'm sure you're just fine, but how does anyone know that when you board the plane?

[blackdog]

Zarf's simple plan is more fruitful than what they are doing now. Just how is gleaning someone's credit file, DMV record, assets, bank accounts, and educational background catching any terrorists except for those who refuse to pay their student loans or are late on paying their electric bill?

[blackdog]

Your pilot's license number, complete with all type ratings is YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it now?????? And yes I have a commercial license and am type rated in several models(those being over 12,000 pounds)

And I do have full understanding of not going near the cockpit these days. My problemo is going near the gate.

Really ironic when you consider the fact that I own my own AIRPORT!

[MineralMan]

"Zarf's simple plan is more fruitful than what they are doing now."

Nonsense. Again, how do you identify the bad guys before you kill them? Until you come up with an answer to that question, there is no plan at all...just knee-jerking.

[MineralMan]

"And I do have full understanding of not going near the cockpit these days. My problemo is going near the gate.

Really ironic when you consider the fact that I own my own AIRPORT!"

Oh yeah, I remember now about your airport. Well, since several of the 9/11 hijackers had flight training, I guess I can see a little closer scrutiny of those holding pilot's tickets. So, exactly how much hassle have you faced when flying on a commercial airline flight? Were you taken away from the public screening area for questioning? Or were you just wanded?

Or have you even flown on a regular airline recently?

[blackdog]

The TSA fella's also loathe all pilots. It's a gubmint employee thing coupled with a hatred of those with superior earnings potential. The issue is that the pilot in command has absolute authority over his plane, it's movement, it's passengers, etc.... according to FAR's(the law) And on the other hand, you have conflicting opinions of authority from TSA/gubmint employees who desire absolute power and pilots thwart that mentality.

[ibbryn]

I think zarf was posting an overall strategy that he felt would solve a lot of problems. Details were left unstated.

There is no reason to be data mining US citz in this way.

If basic, general guidlines were in place and were adhered to (find and remove all illegal aliens, don't let more in, screen all tourists incoming to the US, restrict Visa/citizenship to only those who pass stringent background tests, get our Intel in line and acted upon, etc.) there would be no need to infrige upon the liberties Americans expect and deserve.

[MineralMan]

"If basic, general guidlines were in place and were adhered to (find and remove all illegal aliens, don't let more in, screen all tourists incoming to the US, restrict Visa/citizenship to only those who pass stringent background tests, get our Intel in line and acted upon, etc.) there would be no need to infrige upon the liberties Americans expect and deserve."

In an ideal world, you might be right. But...and this is a big one: We have a few million Muslim citizens here. Are they all safe? As for illegal aliens...most of them are Hispanics from Mexico. They don't seem to be flying all that much.

Yes, we need tighter visa rules, and we're implementing those. As for expelling all the illegal aliens, well, nobody's come up with a way to even find them all, much less expell them.

Remember the "sleeper cells?" Do you suppose those have gone away?

Say my name was Ibrahim al-Ibrahim, and I was a naturalized citizen, but wasn't a good guy. Nothing would prevent me from changing my name to William Benson, would it? People change their names, legally, all the time.

It's not as simple as it sounds, really. Now, I'm very concerned with the privacy issues here. But I don't think a knee-jerk reaction is going to solve those issues or improve airline security.

What's your suggestion? One that goes beyond "kill em all."

[blackdog]

Zarf's plan was tounge-in-cheek. I wasn't serious.

I've flown commercially four times since back then. Each time, one way and my ticket was paid for by another party in another city, so I can see the reason to question my activity. Each time has been to ferry a plane on behalf of a buyer. Each time it's required me to have parts to get it running and a ferry permit (required for unairworthy craft relocation/movement by the FAA)

They will not even let you carry on parts tagged with an airworthy tag just because they have no real understanding of what's what. I had to UPS red the parts instead. They would not even let me check them in my baggage or as baggage.

It's just ironic when a skill or a craft implicates you as a threat in America. If I was a postal worker or a grief psychologist I guess I'd be perfect.

[george wythe]

Acxiom is a data aggregator -- one of a growing number of companies who make money by compiling and selling dossiers of information about Americans. They say they cover 98% of us. They would have 2 roles in CAPPS. First, the TSA would check your name, address, DOB, and phone # against one of these private databases to see if they match. If they don't they would be suspicious that you are not who you say you are (even though these databases are very unreliable, might not reflect the fact that you've recently moved, etc.)

Second, the TSA would then take your identity and run it through unknown set of databases to decide if you are "red" "yellow" or "green" risk. These databases could include law enforcement and intelligence, but could also include private databases like Acxiom. Individuals who are branded as "risky" would never know what information (or possible errors) that rating was based on, and would have no chance to correct it.

Disgusting intrusion on our privacy.

Now my college transcripts will be reviewed by some nitwit in the airport, or my credit report, or my medical insurance file.

And if I have not applied for credit in the last 7 years, my credit file will be empty. Therefore, I will be tagged red.

If I had a dispute with my college apartment landlord, then my former landlord might have reported incorrect data to who knows who, and that data might tag me yellow or red. Of course, the fact that I took my former landlord to court and won will be conveniently omitted from the data.

Oh boy, so much potential for abuse.

If Rush Limbaugh is worried about the Palm Beach country attorney looking a his medical files, he will have no worry soon.

A $7-an-hour airport employee will leak his medical file to the National Enquirer for a handsome figure.

[MineralMan]

"I've flown commercially four times since back then. Each time, one way and my ticket was paid for by another party in another city, so I can see the reason to question my activity. Each time has been to ferry a plane on behalf of a buyer. Each time it's required me to have parts to get it running and a ferry permit (required for unairworthy craft relocation/movement by the FAA)

They will not even let you carry on parts tagged with an airworthy tag just because they have no real understanding of what's what. I had to UPS red the parts instead. They would not even let me check them in my baggage or as baggage."

OK. Yes, I can see a third-party payment for a ticket to be a bit of a worry.

As for the parts, well, it's safer to ship them anyhow, IMO. Check them as luggage and you may not arrive together, as these things go.

But...my question was: How much additional scrutiny did you get on those four flights? Were you taken into another room for questioning? Did you get a body cavity search? Or were you just wanded?

I fly a lot. I've been wanded a few times, but usually I breeze through. I'm not a pilot, or anything else. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the times I've been wanded over the times I haven't. Seems pretty random to me, and takes just a couple of minutes. No big deal to me.

So, you say that you're subjected to additional scrutiny since you're a pilot. Can you describe what additional scrutiny?

[HassanBenSobar]

Now my college transcripts will be reviewed by some nitwit in the airport, or my credit report, or my medical insurance file.

What you quoted said name, address, DOB and phone number. All but DOB are essentially public information already. Where does it say they would check college transcripts or medical records? Do you have facts to back that up or is that just comic exaggeration?

And if I have not applied for credit in the last 7 years, my credit file will be empty. Therefore, I will be tagged red.

Says who? I've worked on CAPPS2 prototypes--doesn't work like that at all. Credit info isn't part of the data.

If I had a dispute with my college apartment landlord, then my former landlord might have reported incorrect data to who knows who, and that data might tag me yellow or red. Of course, the fact that I took my former landlord to court and won will be conveniently omitted from the data.

Sarcasm or are you serious? Sure hope it's the former.

[Hodar]

Acxiom is a data aggregator -- one of a growing number of companies who make money by compiling and selling dossiers of information about Americans. They say they cover 98% of us

OK, from this we can gather they may know a few things. Like the fact that you bought a blue Chevy truck 2 years ago; or you live at 'such and such' address and have lived there for 12 years. No one really cares what your cell phone plan is, but the fact that this identity has one, and has had one for 'x'years means that the identity is likely a valid identity.

And that is the crux of the problem. If a terrorist comes into the US, and assumes an identity, this will help screen to make sure that the identity he claims is both 'real' and potentially 'valid'. For example, if your fingerprint is on record, and his does not match ... bingo; he's caught.

On the other hand, other than feeling paranoid that people really care what you do, where you go, or what clothes you wear ... how does this hamper your movement, associations, financial successes and love live?