The Beast in the Bathhouse [It's Meth]

The New York Times ^ | January 12, 2004 | ANDREW JACOBS

[expatpat]

they want to develop as many potential 'partners' as possible.

It must be the urge to reproduce!

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

[oyez]

I was somehow under the impression that meth suppressed one's sex drive. I read somewhere that the addiction was the primary force and anything else becomes a distant secondary.

[Pearls Before Swine]

I was somehow under the impression that meth suppressed one's sex drive. I read somewhere that the addiction was the primary force and anything else becomes a distant secondary.

The bath house sex drive is formidable and not easily suppressed.

[r9etb]

Dr. Howard Grossman, one of the city's best-known AIDS specialists, said more than half the men who test positive in his private practice blamed methamphetamine. "This drug is destroying our community," he said. "It just seems to be getting worse and worse, and no one is doing anything about it."

This is sadly typical of the homosexual community. On the one hand, you have the activists who want us to behave as if homosexuality were normal, natural, and no different from heterosexuality.

And on the other side, you have people like Dr. Grossman who are demanding that homosexuals be protected (as opposed to protecting themselves) from the medical consequences of their sexual activities.

And media outlets like the NYT play along.

[tuesday afternoon]

Some time ago I read homosexuals in San Francisco were using viagra to counteract the side-effects.

[Gritty]

"This drug is destroying our community," he said.

No it isn't. The homosexuals and their libertine behavior is destroying your community. Meth is only one of the several methods.

"It just seems to be getting worse and worse, and no one is doing anything about it."

They're unihibitedly indulging in this destructive behavior. They'll die quicker, probably quicker that if they commmited murder and given the death sentence in any state other than Texas.

I'd say that qualifies for doing something about it!

[Myrddin]

I think the way I would deal with this if I had the power would be to allow insurance companies to deny insurance coverage for HIV contracted through voluntary homosexual behavior.

That is a perfectly rational approach. My life insurance company puts an exclusion rider on my policy for flying private aircraft until I can document 150 hours of flying experience and a minimum of 100 hours per year. I'm sure they have exclusions for some activities that are not ever subject to coverage. Getting the health insurance companies out of the AIDS business will help rates for everyone else. It is just not right to lay the financial burden of AIDS treatment on all the other ratepayers.

[Land of the Free 04]

It is also impossible to interdict because the chemistry is fairly simple.

So it seems. Local reporters have spoken about variations of a 'back pack' meth lab, and one so-called chemist was arrested with a meth 'lab' in the back seat of her car. Unbelievable.

Where there's a demand there will be a supply. The War On (Some) Drugs is a War On Basic Economics.

[Major_Risktaker]

A lifestyle that is not only to be tolerated but celebrated. Hopefully, one day, schools will have national gay pride months, gay studies at universities and quotas/affirmative action for government contracts and businesses.

________________________________

Back in my old high school days I use go into the men room and gayly smoke a fag with the guys, et al. I guess gayly smoking a fag means something totally different today.

[CatoRenasci]

It would be easy to put a similar rider for HIV: no coverage if you have engaged in any of a list of risky behaviors that would include anal sex, most of the more bizarre forms of kinky homosexual sex such as fisting, intervenous drug use, knowing intercourse with any person who had engaged in any of those behaviors. Have some protection for the "innocent spouse" , for children and those who had been infected as a result of a transfusion or assault (or other contact) (sexual or otherwise) by an HIV positive person. I would make transmission of HIV attempted murder.

[TKDietz]

"One weekend with meth permanently alters your brain chemistry.

It is the most addictive drug on the planet with an addition recovery rate of less than 6%.

Once this stuff gets ahold of you, it is pretty much over for any normal life going forward.

At any given time in America there are 10 to 11 million meth addicts."

Where are you getting your information? Meth is awful horrible stuff, but I don't think any of those statements you made are actually true. It's very true that meth is extremely addictive. It's also true that the stuff will alter your brain chemistry, in some cases permanently. But I have never seen solid evidence that in every case it takes only one weekend to permanently alter brain chemistry, or that we have over 10 million addicts or that only six percent of addicts ever kick the habit. In fact, while the recovery rate is not great, I know from experience and research in that area that it's significantly better than 6%. I deal with meth addicts everyday and while I can't quote you any numbers off of the top of my head I would say that probably most of them eventually kick the habit if it doesn't kill them. Unfortunately for most they have probably burned all their bridges and ruined their lives by then. Many others somehow get away with using meth for a short time and quitting and in some instances some people are able to use it in moderation for decades seemingly without causing themselves harm. But boy when some people use the stuff it isn't long before they can't leave it alone.

I don't have time to look up all of the numbers on this but I suggest you look at this link: http://www.samhsa.gov/oas/nhsda/2k2nsduh/html/Sect1peTabs1to110.htm#tab1.1a It shows SAMHSA numbers from the 2002 NHSDA where they estimate that 567,000 people used meth in the last month when the survey was taken and only a little over 12,000,000 had ever used it at all. Only 1,541,000 used at all in the past year. ("Only" is a relative term here.) If the government numbers are even close to being accurate than there is no way we have 10,000,000 to 11,000,000 meth addicts running around out there. I'd check all of your numbers as I supect they are all heavily exaggerated. Be careful, there is a lot of alarmist propaganda out there.

By the way, people can beat even the nastiest of meth addictions and lead happy, productive lives. I see it happening around me all the time. But still, you are right about one thing and that is that meth is some nasty stuff. When it gets a hold of folks it's really hard to shake it loose. Some people are never able to shake it and many others don't shake it until they have devastated their lives and often the lives of those around them. It is bad stuff.

More fun statistics:
http://www.samhsa.gov/oas/NHSDA/2kNHSDA/chapter2.htm

Here's a really interesting one. It is the 2000 version of the 2002 table I gave you to show you meth use in 2002. Notice the huge jump from 2000 to 2002. It looks like there was over a 50% jump in the number of people who used meth in the month before the 2002 survey from that number in the 2000 survey. That's pretty substantial. The number of people who used any illicit drug in the past month climbed from 14,027,000 to 19,522,000 in 2002. I think the survey changed though in 2002 (I think that was the year) so comparisons from previous year might be skewed.

http://www.samhsa.gov/oas/nhsda/2kdetailedtabs/Vol_1_Part_1/sect1v1.htm#1.1a

[TKDietz]

There are straight meth users doing the same thing even in small towns like where I live. They do the meth so they can hang out at the all night honky tonks trolling for drunk horny women and if they "get lucky" they pop a viagra tablet on the way home with the woman. Viagra sells on the streets anywhere from 15 to $25 per tablet depending on the strength. Allegedly with this combination they can have sex all night even if they've been drinking heavily.

[okie01]

"This drug is destroying our community,"

One might also opine that natural selection is at work here.

[Myrddin]

I would make transmission of HIV attempted murder.

I would make intentional transmission of HIV attempted murder. The charge would be upgraded to murder upon death of the infected party if the party who did the intentional infection survives the victim. HIV tests should be registered with the public health service in a fashion similar to tuberculosis tests. Your HIV infected status would be a matter of public record AND any transmission of the virus to another following a positive test report would count as malice aforethought for purposes of the murder charge.

Frankly, I don't want HIV infected people working as food handlers either. People do cut themselves in the process of preparing food and also setting/clearing tables.

[TKDietz]

"Having done meth a few times in the 70's, I can verify it's nastiness and inform you that Ritalin and Adderal(prescription speed) are just as powerful."

You may inform people of that, but when you do you are misinforming them because it is simply not true. Adderal is closer than Ritalin because it is actually made up of a couple of different amphetamine salts, Dexedrine being the primary one. Ritalin isn't even close because it doesn't have the same effects on the same parts of the brain and doesn't "hit the pleasure centers" anything like amphetamines or methamphetamine.

Since you have done meth, I suspect you have probably also taken too many caffeine pills before or too many psuedo-ephedrine tablets. It makes the skin on your head feel like something's crawling in it, gives you knots in the chest and just generally feels unpleasant. As you should know from taking methamphetamine, you are able to take an awful lot more of that drug before the feeling is so unpleasant. You can be going like a rocket and it not feel unpleasant at all. Try that with Ritalin and you'd find yourself feeling like crap just waiting for the stuff to wear off. I suppose Adderal would be less like Ritalin or psuedo-ephedrine, but still it doesn't have the raw power that meth has nor are people able to tolerate it as well. That's why meth is so addictive even as compared with standard amphetamines and why it's so rarely prescribed. Although I guess you know it is prescribed in rare cases for ADHD and weight control for the morbidly obese. It's called Desoxyn.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine_ids.htm

[blackdog]

I had to stay awake for a long, long trip from BC to the east coast of the US in 1999. My associate had suggested an adderall so I would not fall asleep flying a Seaplane for fifteen hours. Crikey! I had the humms for two days and those after speed aches and muscle pains I had long ago forgotten. I've never been addicted to anything and I found meth horrible even in my youth. Awake for days and disassembling everything in your house is no way to enjoy life. Seeing those shaddow people out of the corners of your eyes is a bit freaky too.

I've never understood anyone with an addiction. It must be terrifying.

Thanks for the Ritalin analysis. I knew adderal was an amphetamine mix and assumed Ritalin was the same since they market it as such.

I was just shocked at how readily any doctor's office is to write an adderal script. In my case it was written to someone for depression! I can't imagine anything worse for depression than amphetamines!

[Pylot]

Well you are clearly more knowledgable about the topic than I am.

My information comes from a couple of tv shows, I confess that tv is hardly the best source for information. They were interviewing addicts and doctors. Two of the doctors were making the comments about the brain damage and one of them cited the recovery rate for those using a needle at less than 6%. One of the shows stated that in any given year 11 million Americans used meth.

In any case it is the most horrifying stuff I have ever heard of. Watching those toothless filthy addicts destroy themselves was terrifying and it is an aspect of the use of meth that I had no idea even existed.

Here in Colorado a highway worker got permanent lung damage from dumping a rest area garbage container that contained meth lab residue. That was on the news just this week. Now the DOT is going to train workers to treat rest stop garbage as a hazardous material.

[AppyPappy]

Oddly, in the local schools, when an ADD kid forgets to take his ritalin, they give him caffeine (Mtn Dew usually). They say it works just as effectively.

[TKDietz]

It is scary stuff. I'm a public defender and so many of my "frequent flyer" clients are meth addicts. It's not too much unlike additions to crack or even Oxycontin or heroin though. The tough thing about it is that anyone can make it with stuff they can buy at WalMart. If they aren't just thinking about how they can get dirt cheap drugs, the money they imagine that they'll make lures them in. By that time though most of them aren't thinking straight and it's extremely rare that any of the guys cooking it in their kitchen are making any money. Most of them can't even keep their utilities turned on.

Again though, I have seen people go from rock bottom on that stuff and totally do a one-eighty with their lives. I've seen them turn around and become successful, productive, decent people. Felony records do not help in this regard. They only limit what people can do with their lives, make it less likely they'll succeed and more likely that they'll go back to drugs. I think that we should be sparing with the number of felony convictions we hand out. It should take more than just being a drug addict and possessing drugs to make someone a felon. I'd go even further with it and allow addicts who resort to small scale dealing to support themselves and their habit have the opportunity to work through drug court type programs to kick their habits and as a reward for those who make it through tough programs like these wipe their record of the drug offense(s) clean. We do this today where I live although technically we aren't supposed to be letting people who sell or manufacture drugs into the programs (it does happen though fairly often).

The program is far from perfect though. Everyone is forced into the same rigid program whether they are actual addicts or just "experimenters." It takes fifteen months to complete it and unless they have really understanding employers people have to quit their day jobs so they can make it to all the meetings throughout the week every week. And if the people do complete the program their records are just sealed and expunged, but people have to admit to them if they try to go in the military, become teachers, lawyers, stock brokers and all sorts of other professions.

Also, these people can still never own or even be around firearms. That may seem reasonable for the hardcore drug addict who quite possibly might slip into his old ways in the future, but it's not reasonable for the guy who got caught when he was experimenting with drugs when he was eighteen and now at thirty-five happens to get pulled over with a guy who has his hunting rifle in the back seat of his car. Expunged or not, these records stay on the police computers forever so that guy is liable to be facing felony charges for being a "felon in possession of a firearm."

If it was up to me, it would not be a felony to do nothing more than simply possess a small amount of or use a drug. It could still be a misdemeanor or some type of "violation" and there could still be fairly serious consequences for the offense, but it should not be a felony. We should save felony convictions for real criminals.